Picky, sick Panther Cham

[Mas0n]

Hi there, i work for a science center and we recently adopted a panther chameleon. He was quite shy at first but now he has days where he's grumpy and days where he wants to climb all over me. I noticed from the very beginning he was a picky eater. He was fed gut loaded super worms before and i continued his diet of that but the way i have to feed him is hold the supers with tweezers no further than 2 inches from his face or he will miss them. I tried to create a more active environment for him by gutloading crickets and letting them in his enclosure so he could chase them but he never did. He also will refuse to eat crickets even if i hold them with tweezers. He recently stopped eating every day, i will offer him some super worms but he will often refuse them because he was startled or something set him off where he didn't feel like eating. Sometimes he doesn't eat for three days then he will eat maybe 3 or 4 worms then stop eating again. Im worried for his health.
This weekend when i came in to check on him i noticed he was at the bottom of his enclosure and he was a extremely pale green and usually he's a very bright blue green. His eyes were closed so i poked him gently to wake him up and he did but very slowly. Then again this morning i noticed he was laying on the ground of the bottom of his enclosure in a puddle of COLD water with his eyes closed just resting. I tried creating my own feeder by having a pop bottle with mesh at the back and leaving the super worms in there so he could get it himself but he doesn't. Im worried he's going to starve himself because of his picky eating habits.
I have a fogger, a UVB light, as well as a heat lamp. I just checked this morning and his humidity is at 54% and his heat is at 75. He is aprox 1-2 years old. I do dust his worms with Calcium on and off when he does actually eat them. Hopefully someone can give me some advice!

 

[Scottsquatch]

First off, If all you have for moisture is a fogger that is NOT ENOUGH! its great to help with humidity, but not nearly enough to keep him hydrated. He needs an automatic mister to go off 4 or 5 times a day. The mister makes water droplets big enough for him to drink. The fogger only aids in humidity. He may very well be dehydrated. The misting sessions have to be long enough to stimulate his drinking response and one session should be even longer (10-15 mins) in order to give him time to wash out his eyes.
Secondly, is it his ambient temp that is 75 or his basking spot? His basking spot should be around 86 to 88 degrees. If he doesn't have access to these warmer temps, he won't be able to warm up or digest food properly. Get a temp gun and make sure of his basking temps.
Lastly, chams often get usef to one food object and then go on a hungerstrike and refuse all other prey items. Superworms are notorious for causing this behavior. You need to try other prey items that will entice him to eat again. Green insects, and flying insects are both very tempting to chameleons. Green banana roaches are green AND fly and are really good at enticing chameleons break hunger strikes. You can get them from Nick Barta at Full Throttle Feeders. He is a site sponser and a heck of a good guy. He can also tell you about other bugs that might work well in your situation. There is a link to his site in the sponser section.
If you make sure your cham is well hydrated and has access to the proper temps he may very well start eating of his own accord. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[kelly_girl199]

Hi there, i work for a science center and we recently adopted a panther chameleon. He was quite shy at first but now he has days where he's grumpy and days where he wants to climb all over me. I noticed from the very beginning he was a picky eater. He was fed gut loaded super worms before and i continued his diet of that but the way i have to feed him is hold the supers with tweezers no further than 2 inches from his face or he will miss them. I tried to create a more active environment for him by gutloading crickets and letting them in his enclosure so he could chase them but he never did. He also will refuse to eat crickets even if i hold them with tweezers. He recently stopped eating every day, i will offer him some super worms but he will often refuse them because he was startled or something set him off where he didn't feel like eating. Sometimes he doesn't eat for three days then he will eat maybe 3 or 4 worms then stop eating again. Im worried for his health.
This weekend when i came in to check on him i noticed he was at the bottom of his enclosure and he was a extremely pale green and usually he's a very bright blue green. His eyes were closed so i poked him gently to wake him up and he did but very slowly. Then again this morning i noticed he was laying on the ground of the bottom of his enclosure in a puddle of COLD water with his eyes closed just resting. I tried creating my own feeder by having a pop bottle with mesh at the back and leaving the super worms in there so he could get it himself but he doesn't. Im worried he's going to starve himself because of his picky eating habits.
I have a fogger, a UVB light, as well as a heat lamp. I just checked this morning and his humidity is at 54% and his heat is at 75. He is aprox 1-2 years old. I do dust his worms with Calcium on and off when he does actually eat them. Hopefully someone can give me some advice!

You need to listen to a podcast on Chamelon breeders podcast with John courtney Smith. He talks about vitamins in our chamelons. He touches on this very issue of tongue use. episode 59

 

[kelly_girl199]

Hi there, i work for a science center and we recently adopted a panther chameleon. He was quite shy at first but now he has days where he's grumpy and days where he wants to climb all over me. I noticed from the very beginning he was a picky eater. He was fed gut loaded super worms before and i continued his diet of that but the way i have to feed him is hold the supers with tweezers no further than 2 inches from his face or he will miss them. I tried to create a more active environment for him by gutloading crickets and letting them in his enclosure so he could chase them but he never did. He also will refuse to eat crickets even if i hold them with tweezers. He recently stopped eating every day, i will offer him some super worms but he will often refuse them because he was startled or something set him off where he didn't feel like eating. Sometimes he doesn't eat for three days then he will eat maybe 3 or 4 worms then stop eating again. Im worried for his health.
This weekend when i came in to check on him i noticed he was at the bottom of his enclosure and he was a extremely pale green and usually he's a very bright blue green. His eyes were closed so i poked him gently to wake him up and he did but very slowly. Then again this morning i noticed he was laying on the ground of the bottom of his enclosure in a puddle of COLD water with his eyes closed just resting. I tried creating my own feeder by having a pop bottle with mesh at the back and leaving the super worms in there so he could get it himself but he doesn't. Im worried he's going to starve himself because of his picky eating habits.
I have a fogger, a UVB light, as well as a heat lamp. I just checked this morning and his humidity is at 54% and his heat is at 75. He is aprox 1-2 years old. I do dust his worms with Calcium on and off when he does actually eat them. Hopefully someone can give me some advice!

they are not picky either, they are missing something in their diet and trying to resolve it.

Hi there, i work for a science center and we recently adopted a panther chameleon. He was quite shy at first but now he has days where he's grumpy and days where he wants to climb all over me. I noticed from the very beginning he was a picky eater. He was fed gut loaded super worms before and i continued his diet of that but the way i have to feed him is hold the supers with tweezers no further than 2 inches from his face or he will miss them. I tried to create a more active environment for him by gutloading crickets and letting them in his enclosure so he could chase them but he never did. He also will refuse to eat crickets even if i hold them with tweezers. He recently stopped eating every day, i will offer him some super worms but he will often refuse them because he was startled or something set him off where he didn't feel like eating. Sometimes he doesn't eat for three days then he will eat maybe 3 or 4 worms then stop eating again. Im worried for his health.
This weekend when i came in to check on him i noticed he was at the bottom of his enclosure and he was a extremely pale green and usually he's a very bright blue green. His eyes were closed so i poked him gently to wake him up and he did but very slowly. Then again this morning i noticed he was laying on the ground of the bottom of his enclosure in a puddle of COLD water with his eyes closed just resting. I tried creating my own feeder by having a pop bottle with mesh at the back and leaving the super worms in there so he could get it himself but he doesn't. Im worried he's going to starve himself because of his picky eating habits.
I have a fogger, a UVB light, as well as a heat lamp. I just checked this morning and his humidity is at 54% and his heat is at 75. He is aprox 1-2 years old. I do dust his worms with Calcium on and off when he does actually eat them. Hopefully someone can give me some advice!

Also, get a fecal smear done by a reptile vet. It could be a number of things, but tongue usage is normally caused by lack of vitamins and minerals. Which you need to gutload and hydrate your insects reall well with fresh fruits and vegies. I also use a number of organic plant protein based dry gutloads. There is cricket crack, bug buffet, and repashy superload. Only ones I know of not filled with garbage. You can easily take an apple slice and just sprinkle the dry gutload on. Your animal is sick and needs to see a vet. Get him weighed, have a fecal sample ran, and have him looked over by a knowledgable reptile vet who is very familiar with chamelons. Where are you located?

 

[kelly_girl199]

also what sort of UVB light are you using and when is the last time it has be changed? Get him out into some natural sun if weather permits. ALso pictures would be helpful

 

[Scottsquatch]

I just reread your post and kinda forgot the most important issue! If he is spending time on the bottom of the cage and is closing his eyes during the day, you need to get him to the vet ASAP. both of these symptoms are indicators of something very wrong. It could be severe dehydration or it could be many many other issues, but when he is on the bottom and closing his eyes during the day you need to get him to the vet because at this stage they decline rapidly.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..." I noticed from the very beginning he was a picky eater. He was fed gut loaded super worms before and i continued his diet of that but the way i have to feed him is hold the supers with tweezers no further than 2 inches from his face or he will miss them"...missing the insects and you having to hold them close to him indicates a tongue issue. Tongue issues can be the result of an injury or an infection or a nutrient imbalance. If he couldn't get the insect out of your (tweezer) grip it could have strained his tongue. Younmshould be able to see some symptoms if it's an infection. If it's a nutrient imbalance you need to look at several things to figure it out...temperatures, what the insects are fed/gutloaded/dusted with, UVB lighting. Is he out of the cage a lot?

Youn said..."I tried to create a more active environment for him by gutloading crickets and letting them in his enclosure so he could chase them but he never did"...good moves! Too bad it didn't help.

You said... "He also will refuse to eat crickets even if i hold them with tweezers. He recently stopped eating every day, i will offer him some super worms but he will often refuse them because he was startled or something set him off where he didn't feel like eating. Sometimes he doesn't eat for three days then he will eat maybe 3 or 4 worms then stop eating again. Im worried for his health"....understandably.

You said..."This weekend when i came in to check on him i noticed he was at the bottom of his enclosure and he was a extremely pale green and usually he's a very bright blue green. His eyes were closed so i poked him gently to wake him up and he did but very slowly. Then again this morning i noticed he was laying on the ground of the bottom of his enclosure in a puddle of COLD water with his eyes closed just resting"....not good signs. Can you moist some recent photos of him please. I want to see all of him from the side especially. Why is there water on the floor of the cage? Is it stagnant/stale?

You said..." I tried creating my own feeder by having a pop bottle with mesh at the back and leaving the super worms in there so he could get it himself but he doesn't. Im worried he's going to starve himself because of his picky eating habits."...I don't think he's being picky...I think there is another reason for him not eating.

You said..."I have a fogger" Howe often does it run? Is it kept clean? No dripper?

,you said you have a UVB light...how old is it? What brand? If he's out of the cage a lot he may not be getting enough UVB.

You said you have a heat lamp....again...what brand?

You said you just checked this morning and his humidity is at 54% and his heat is at 75....what is the basking temperature? The basking temperature is important to his digestion. If he's out of the cages lot he may not be digesting properly either because he's not getting enough basking time.

You said.." I do dust his worms with Calcium on and off when he does actually eat them"...he's not likely getting enough nutrients if he's not eating. Sitting low in the cage is not helping with heat and UVB either.

A vet can tell you if he's got a nutrient imbalance. He needs help ASAP...they crash fast.

 

[Mas0n]

Hi everyone i apologize for the delay in response. I'm going to be setting up a drainage system at the bottom of his tank, Possibly drilling a hole into the table its on then a hole at the bottom of the cage and a bucket underneath. His fogger is running almost 24/7 ill be adding a drip system to his tank but in the mean time i've been misting it. He also has a water dish at the bottom of his cage that i noticed he will drink from but also lay in sometimes? Apparently yesterday my co worker told be that he was pacing up and down his cage, which was a good sign since he was active, but i read somewhere it could be because he's reaching sexual maturity and trying to seek a female. Unfortunately a reptile vet is NOT a option. Closest one is 8 hours away and the travel down there alone would be enough to kill the poor guy I'm sure. I do not take him out of his enclosure often at all just because he doesn't seem to enjoy it much and i want to respect that. Sunlight is hardly a option as its very cold here and i can't take him outside. I just fed him 2 worms and he ate them extremely slowly, he was very active yesterday but now very lethargic. I have a 100watt heat light, but I'm looking at possibly getting a 150 just so i can bump up that heat in the cage. Ill post pictures of him.

 

[Mas0n]

Here are the pics

 

[Mas0n]

Another pic

 

[Mas0n]

You said..." I noticed from the very beginning he was a picky eater. He was fed gut loaded super worms before and i continued his diet of that but the way i have to feed him is hold the supers with tweezers no further than 2 inches from his face or he will miss them"...missing the insects and you having to hold them close to him indicates a tongue issue. Tongue issues can be the result of an injury or an infection or a nutrient imbalance. If he couldn't get the insect out of your (tweezer) grip it could have strained his tongue. Younmshould be able to see some symptoms if it's an infection. If it's a nutrient imbalance you need to look at several things to figure it out...temperatures, what the insects are fed/gutloaded/dusted with, UVB lighting. Is he out of the cage a lot?

Youn said..."I tried to create a more active environment for him by gutloading crickets and letting them in his enclosure so he could chase them but he never did"...good moves! Too bad it didn't help.

You said... "He also will refuse to eat crickets even if i hold them with tweezers. He recently stopped eating every day, i will offer him some super worms but he will often refuse them because he was startled or something set him off where he didn't feel like eating. Sometimes he doesn't eat for three days then he will eat maybe 3 or 4 worms then stop eating again. Im worried for his health"....understandably.

You said..."This weekend when i came in to check on him i noticed he was at the bottom of his enclosure and he was a extremely pale green and usually he's a very bright blue green. His eyes were closed so i poked him gently to wake him up and he did but very slowly. Then again this morning i noticed he was laying on the ground of the bottom of his enclosure in a puddle of COLD water with his eyes closed just resting"....not good signs. Can you moist some recent photos of him please. I want to see all of him from the side especially. Why is there water on the floor of the cage? Is it stagnant/stale?

You said..." I tried creating my own feeder by having a pop bottle with mesh at the back and leaving the super worms in there so he could get it himself but he doesn't. Im worried he's going to starve himself because of his picky eating habits."...I don't think he's being picky...I think there is another reason for him not eating.

You said..."I have a fogger" Howe often does it run? Is it kept clean? No dripper?

,you said you have a UVB light...how old is it? What brand? If he's out of the cage a lot he may not be getting enough UVB.

You said you have a heat lamp....again...what brand?

You said you just checked this morning and his humidity is at 54% and his heat is at 75....what is the basking temperature? The basking temperature is important to his digestion. If he's out of the cages lot he may not be digesting properly either because he's not getting enough basking time.

You said.." I do dust his worms with Calcium on and off when he does actually eat them"...he's not likely getting enough nutrients if he's not eating. Sitting low in the cage is not helping with heat and UVB either.

A vet can tell you if he's got a nutrient imbalance. He needs help ASAP...they crash fast.

I added more info in my post that i recently posted, he eats i'd say a average of 2 super worms every 2 days.

 

[Scottsquatch]

I'd ditch the water dish in tphe bottom too. It's a breeding ground for bacteria and an excellent vector to re-infect him with parasite eggs if there are any present in his feces.

 

[kinyonga]

If he's been drinking out of that water dish it's likely made him ill. If he's picked up some bacteria from the water he may need an antibiotic.
No signs of MBD so that's good.

 

[absolutbill]

Also, if he's 1-2 years (which I can believe from the pics), he should only be fed every 2 days, possibly every 3 days when he is totally healthy. At his age they don't need to eat every single day. With that said, it's far more important to fix the things mentioned above FIRST, and then once he's nice and healthy, then cut down his feeding days.