Piccilo - craigslist pull is in surprisingly ok shape but I would appreciate advice.

[blondebrowncoat]

Hello everyone.

Two weeks ago I snagged a veiled cham of craiglist from someone who didn't really know what they were doing. He's made some great progress but I'm still a fairly novice cham owner myself (my last cham was special needs and required non-traditional care). I have a good vet who he's already seen, but she recommended I also post here with husbandry details. You all helped wonderfully when I had Peet and I'm hoping you can help me make sure I give my new guy just as great of a life. He was kept in a very bad setup, so I've provided two sets of details - one from his time with me, and another with what I know about his prior conditions.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male veiled appx 1 yo, I've had him for two weeks. Tested positive for pinworms (medium load, lots of eggs) and had his first dose of panacur on the 7th. He has some stuck shed problems that seem to be resolving with better care. He is also missing the last few inches of his tail. Vet said no signs of MDB. She said overall he's surprisingly healthy considering his prior living conditions. He has a pretty good appetite and is a finnicky drinker. He is a little underweight and bounces between being dehydrated and being ok. He is hand tame and not very moody. I don't know if this is just a sign of him feeling bad/being stressed.
• Handling - The first week I had him I had to handle him every day while transporting/tanks swapping/providing medical care. I don't plan on handling him often - maybe once a week just to do physical checkups. I have cuddly leopard geckos, I don't need my cham to love me
• Feeding - Hornworms, silk worms, occasional supers and wax worms (get them from Linda's Gone Buggy). All are gutloaded with carrots/collards/cucumber except the horn worms (More on that in the questions section at the bottom). He eats about 5 inches of hornworms a day, a couple of silk worms, and then a treat feeder every other day. I'm offering food daily right now. I'll switch to every other day once he's put on some weight.
• Supplements - I'm dusting with Arcadia Earthpro-A every feeding. Because I don't know his history, I'm waiting a month to give him a D3 dusted meal. I read several sources that said earthpro-a is all I need if I have good lighting. Agree? Disagree? I'm concerned about getting him enough vit A. I really would appreciate more recommendations/information.
• Watering - I have a mist king and a dripper. He is misted at 9am 12pm 3pm and 7pm for 4 minutes each. I also run the mister for about 20 minutes manually in the afternoon. The dripper runs for most of the day. The first week I had a ml syringe I filled with unflavored Pedialyte and dropped on his nose-tip because he was pretty dehydrated.
• Fecal Description - Droppings have normalized - white urate most days. I have a microscope and would like to enter the wonderful world of fecal floats.
• History - See below

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Wire cage, 30/20/40in. Top of cage is 52in off the ground. Three sides wrapped with a plastic poncho on the outside for humidity levels. Bars have textured coating. So far it's working well and he doesn't have trouble gripping/climbing. If it becomes a problem I have screen I can line it with. Filled with branches from my yard that I collected and dried previously. Also three dowel perches that came with the cage.
• Lighting - Heat - 1 incandescent bulb, 1 arcadia deep heat projector (36cm from top of his basking back) both on a thermostat. dual 22in arcadia 6% uvb 14 in away from his basking back. All on a 12hr cycle - light comes on with daybreak. Gets additional natural lighting from nearby north-facing window.
• Temperature - Basking spot is 90~95 degrees. Daytime Top half of cage is 75~83 depending on if the mister has just run. Bottom of cage is 73~70. Nighttime is 68~64. Measured with digital thermometers that show max/min temp over 24 hours and laser thermometer for surfaces. Manual checks throughout the day. He likes to hang out in the middle of the cage in his plant cave and climbs up for basking around noon. He doesn't pace or act uncomfortable.
• Humidity - The daytime humidity range in the bottom half is 45~53% and the very top of the cage is 10~53% depending on if the mister has ran and if the heat lamps are on. At night humidity drops to around 30~35. Measured with digital hydrometers (or whatever they're called) that show max/min humidity over 24 hours plus manual checks throughout the day. Airflow seems good.
• Plants - No real plants yet I know, it's killing me, but I'm going to wait until he's parasite-free to put real plants in there. Right now I have several silk plants that I can easily disinfect daily. I have a spider plant ready and I'm planning on adding an umbrella tree/hibiscus (depending on what I can find) and some lavender/African daisies.
• Placement - The cage is in my office. I'm in there for most of the day but I'm a quiet worker (90% typing 10% heavy sighing). I've put up a screen so he can't see most of the room so he can have privacy. Our house is pretty quiet and the office is back away from the rest of the house. He seems pretty chill and acclimated to people being around. There's a vent in the room but it's pointed away from his cage. On nice days I open the window next to his cage to let fresh air in.
• Location - Austin, Texas.

History
Chameleon Info:

• Handling -It seems they handled him quite a bit because he's very tame and will climb on your hand willingly if you are calm.
• Feeding - I found about 50 loose feeders in the bottom of his tank he came with and I had a mild freak-out moment. He's obviously conditioned to climb to the bottom of the tank to hunt. So he's been eating mold/poo-gutloaded supers/random beetles/roaches. No signs of proper gutloading material in the bottom of the tank.
• Supplements - I can't see any evidence that he was receiving any supplements. He has shedding problems and he was pretty grey/dusky brown when I got him. A couple of weeks of supplementation has him looking much more colorful.
• Watering - based off the amount of rust on the screen at the top of the exoterra and the way he reacts to hand misting, I guess they would just spray a bit on the top of his tank and then run the dripper.
• Fecal Description - Yellow - he was very dehydrated but not chronically according to the vet. Pinworms.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 3ftx2ftx18in exoterra glass terrarium. Perches were metal curtain rods. a molded puppy pee pad was in the bottom, along with a mixture of moldy dirt and feces. Tank walls had...algae? idk what it was but it was friggin gross.
• Lighting - Heat - 1 incandescent bulb resting directly on top. 2 bulb arcadia 12%uvb resting directly on top (tested the bulbs, their output is very low so he's been getting subpar uvb for a while now). His back/veil was about 4 inches away from the top during basking. Very shocked he doesn't have burn damage on his casque or back.
• Temperature - not regulated
• Humidity - When I measured the humidity in the tank when we got him home it was in the 70s.
• Plants - one very crispy-dead boston fern and a dragon plant that was completely molded through. Several plastic plants.
• Placement - It looks like they were keeping him in a living room with several other reptiles including cresties.

Current Problems/Questions:
He hates/doesn't understand the mister. How to help with hydration without overdoing it?
Should I buy a fogger?
Should I mist at night?
How in the heck do I keep my plants from getting water logged? (this happened with my last cham)
Can I feed my hornworms normal gutload plants or does this make them toxic?! He's the first reptile I've had who is interested in horn worms so I'm not very familiar with them.
Anyone know local reputable feeder breeders in Austin?
Is it bad to have air fresheners/candles in the same room as your cham?
Is Earthpro-A the only supplement I need when coupled with correct UVB lighting?
Tell me about your cham's activity schedule. I've never had a normal cham (Peet was blind and not very mobile) so I don't know what is normal/abnormal behavior!

Thank you for reading this novel! Here are pictures of him and his setup

 

[Beman]

Hi there! see my feedback and questions in bold.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male veiled appx 1 yo, I've had him for two weeks. Tested positive for pinworms (medium load, lots of eggs) and had his first dose of panacur on the 7th. He has some stuck shed problems that seem to be resolving with better care. He is also missing the last few inches of his tail. Vet said no signs of MDB. She said overall he's surprisingly healthy considering his prior living conditions. He has a pretty good appetite and is a finnicky drinker. He is a little underweight and bounces between being dehydrated and being ok. He is hand tame and not very moody. I don't know if this is just a sign of him feeling bad/being stressed.
• Handling - The first week I had him I had to handle him every day while transporting/tanks swapping/providing medical care. I don't plan on handling him often - maybe once a week just to do physical checkups. I have cuddly leopard geckos, I don't need my cham to love me
• Feeding - Hornworms, silk worms, occasional supers and wax worms (get them from Linda's Gone Buggy). All are gutloaded with carrots/collards/cucumber except the horn worms (More on that in the questions section at the bottom). He eats about 5 inches of hornworms a day, a couple of silk worms, and then a treat feeder every other day. I'm offering food daily right now. I'll switch to every other day once he's put on some weight. Careful with the larger hornworms these can be harder for them to get down and pose a bite risk due to their mandibles being fully developed and quite strong. I would expand your gutload see image below. What is his actual weight and body length tip of nose to vent? He looks like he is holding fat in his casque and is smaller in size so I would consider every other day feeding of 3-4 feeders.
• Supplements - I'm dusting with Arcadia Earthpro-A every feeding. Because I don't know his history, I'm waiting a month to give him a D3 dusted meal. I read several sources that said earthpro-a is all I need if I have good lighting. Agree? Disagree? I'm concerned about getting him enough vit A. I really would appreciate more recommendations/information. EP-A is your calcium without D3 and it has water soluble B vitamins and Carotenoids. You will still want to supplement with a Vitamin A and calcium with D3 two times a month so every other week. EP-A does not have either of these.
• Watering - I have a mist king and a dripper. He is misted at 9am 12pm 3pm and 7pm for 4 minutes each. I also run the mister for about 20 minutes manually in the afternoon. The dripper runs for most of the day. The first week I had a ml syringe I filled with unflavored Pedialyte and dropped on his nose-tip because he was pretty dehydrated. I would say the 20 minute misting is overkill. I would run the mister morning and evening only so that the cage dries out fully during the day. You do not want to create an environment for bacteria growth which then leads to an RI risk.
• Fecal Description - Droppings have normalized - white urate most days. I have a microscope and would like to enter the wonderful world of fecal floats.
• History - See below

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Wire cage, 30/20/40in. Top of cage is 52in off the ground. Three sides wrapped with a plastic poncho on the outside for humidity levels. Bars have textured coating. So far it's working well and he doesn't have trouble gripping/climbing. If it becomes a problem I have screen I can line it with. Filled with branches from my yard that I collected and dried previously. Also three dowel perches that came with the cage.
• Lighting - Heat - 1 incandescent bulb, 1 arcadia deep heat projector (36cm from top of his basking back) both on a thermostat. dual 22in arcadia 6% uvb 14 in away from his basking back. All on a 12hr cycle - light comes on with daybreak. Gets additional natural lighting from nearby north-facing window. Are you using a solarmeter to check UVI at basking? Looking for a 3 UVI there.
• Temperature - Basking spot is 90~95 degrees. Daytime Top half of cage is 75~83 depending on if the mister has just run. Bottom of cage is 73~70. Nighttime is 68~64. Measured with digital thermometers that show max/min temp over 24 hours and laser thermometer for surfaces. Manual checks throughout the day. He likes to hang out in the middle of the cage in his plant cave and climbs up for basking around noon. He doesn't pace or act uncomfortable. Basking is much too hot. Your looking for 80-85 at the max end. Hotter temps have been linked with shorter life span. They actually do not bask in the wild when temps are hot they retreat into the trees to escape it.
• Humidity - The daytime humidity range in the bottom half is 45~53% and the very top of the cage is 10~53% depending on if the mister has ran and if the heat lamps are on. At night humidity drops to around 30~35. Measured with digital hydrometers (or whatever they're called) that show max/min humidity over 24 hours plus manual checks throughout the day. Airflow seems good. So your still within daytime range but a bit high. Really your looking for 30-40% daytime humidity. 50% would be a very high end. Night time when temps are cool you want 80% or higher. This can be achieved with adding a cool mist fogger but temps have to be below 68 and you have to have air circulation.
• Plants - No real plants yet I know, it's killing me, but I'm going to wait until he's parasite-free to put real plants in there. Right now I have several silk plants that I can easily disinfect daily. I have a spider plant ready and I'm planning on adding an umbrella tree/hibiscus (depending on what I can find) and some lavender/African daisies. FYI Hibiscus require high light. So you would need to add plant lighting for it. Here is an image and choose veiled safe live plants. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf
• Placement - The cage is in my office. I'm in there for most of the day but I'm a quiet worker (90% typing 10% heavy sighing). I've put up a screen so he can't see most of the room so he can have privacy. Our house is pretty quiet and the office is back away from the rest of the house. He seems pretty chill and acclimated to people being around. There's a vent in the room but it's pointed away from his cage. On nice days I open the window next to his cage to let fresh air in. My three boys see me all day as my office is in their area as well. It should not cause any additional stress seeing you.
• Location - Austin, Texas.

Current Problems/Questions:
He hates/doesn't understand the mister. How to help with hydration without overdoing it? So your misting too much. Most Veileds hate water. But if he never had an auto mister it will take time to adjust to it. He will learn when it will kick on and move down out of the direct spray.
Should I buy a fogger? I would they can be great when your fighting night time low humidity levels. This is a good one and is a top fill so it is easier. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V39ZYJB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_vplXDb9GMSZDZ
Should I mist at night? You can but make them shorter in length. Ideally your running a 2-5 minute in the morning before the cage gets warm and then again in the evening when the cage is cooling off.
How in the heck do I keep my plants from getting water logged? (this happened with my last cham) By not over misting and add a layer of hydroballs to the bottom of the planter so water does not just sit in the soil.
Can I feed my hornworms normal gutload plants or does this make them toxic?! He's the first reptile I've had who is interested in horn worms so I'm not very familiar with them. They do best on hornworm food. But in a pinch you can give them carrots or dandelion greens if you run out.
Anyone know local reputable feeder breeders in Austin? I get mine shipped from rainbow mealworms, dubiaroaches, morifeeders, and coastal silkworms.
Is it bad to have air fresheners/candles in the same room as your cham? Their lungs are pretty sensitive. I do not use anything in the room with the chams including cleaning products... I am pretty cautious with this.
Is Earthpro-A the only supplement I need when coupled with correct UVB lighting? Answered above.
Tell me about your cham's activity schedule. I've never had a normal cham (Peet was blind and not very mobile) so I don't know what is normal/abnormal behavior! So all three of my boys... Lights on they start waking up and move to basking level. Stretch and yawn as they warm up. Through the day they will explore their enclosure. Roughly 2 hours prior to lights off they move down into sleeping spots. They all know where their feeder cups are. I am very regular with when I feed each morning so they will typically go to their cups prior to me getting the feeders. All three know when misting happens and will stay out of the direct spray path moving down into their plants. Hang out there until it stops.

This is a great husbandry program that gives a ton of accurate info https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
Here is the care sheet from that site for your Veiled. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/care-sheet-Veiled-Chameleon-2021A.pdf

 

[blondebrowncoat]

everything

Yes! This is awesome, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and for including links/infographics. I should be able to make all these changes pretty easily! And I feel much better about cutting back on the misting now. Thank you!

 

[Beman]

Yes! This is awesome, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and for including links/infographics. I should be able to make all these changes pretty easily! And I feel much better about cutting back on the misting now. Thank you!

Your welcome. Let me know if you have any questions.