Alekthechameleon
New Member
I have noticed lots of people saying petsmart is bad for chameleons what is it that petsmart does to them?
Petsmart?
- Thread starter Alekthechameleon
- Start date
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
They do not educate their employees on proper care so the employees give out the wrong info, sells the wrong lighting, etc to the customer. Often, when the chameleon falls ill and they stumble upon this forum we find that the petstore was negligent with their information.
I shop at our local PetSmart all the time. The people are really nice. They have tons of items in stock. Mostly their prices are fairly low. I love their fish aquariums and the way they work with the local SPCA to rehome strays, etc.
Then they cram all the lizards, frogs, snakes, birds, etc. into these super small spaces and do minimal, even careless care of those poor creatures. They price them so that they can turn them around (sell) them quickly but that doesn't always happen. So they become like orphans in early 1800's, cast away and left to fend for themselves.
I bought our first chameleon over a year ago from a PetSmart. She was housed in a 10"x10"x10" terrarium with a bowl of water and a plastic aquarium plant. They didn't know how old she was, where she'd come from, or even that she was female! She lived 3 (three!!!) months and suddenly dropped dead. It never grew very large, or had much color, but was the most loving lizard I'd ever seen. Even my wife got attached to her, then POOF! she was gone.
The problem with any pet store like them is that they limit space and care and try to "mass merchandise" them as if they were bags of feed. No fault of the employees, rather the merchandising mentality of the top dogs.
So, whenever I can, I try to learn something new about chameleons and then share it with the workers. Mostly they seem to appreciate it. Usually they haven't time to initiate anything I share with them.
On the flip side, whenever I walk into their store, they know what I need and nearly run to help me. A lady met me at the door a couple of days ago and said "Crickets today? How many?" and motioned for someone to go help me.
Vegun
New Member
I was at a PS last night.
I talk to a mother and young son out of buying a Veiled chameleon and into buying a bearded dragon. Amuch more suitable pet for a first timer. The employee whispered thank you so much for doing that they gave me half of my bugs.
I got the feeling that she could have got in trouble if she tried to talk them out of buying that chameleon...?
I talk to a mother and young son out of buying a Veiled chameleon and into buying a bearded dragon. Amuch more suitable pet for a first timer. The employee whispered thank you so much for doing that they gave me half of my bugs.
I got the feeling that she could have got in trouble if she tried to talk them out of buying that chameleon...?
hpc1979
Established Member
Petsmart
I actually know a manager at a local Petsmart in the Philadelphia Area. She is actually a reptile specialist and chameleon owner. She told me once that at her store they actually took out their chameleon's after store hours and placed them in screen cages in the back. Petsmart is a business. Most pet stores I have gone to, cage their chameleons the exact same way. I can only think of two pet stores I've ever seen that cage their chameleons right. I think from a store point of view, screen cages are easier for people to mess with and destroy. Most people aren't conscientious of the harm they can create by messing with animals such as chameleons, especially little kids. Honestly, unless you know your personal breeder, I don't think any of us really knows how our animals are treated before they get to us. I guess that where we all need to do our homework.
I actually know a manager at a local Petsmart in the Philadelphia Area. She is actually a reptile specialist and chameleon owner. She told me once that at her store they actually took out their chameleon's after store hours and placed them in screen cages in the back. Petsmart is a business. Most pet stores I have gone to, cage their chameleons the exact same way. I can only think of two pet stores I've ever seen that cage their chameleons right. I think from a store point of view, screen cages are easier for people to mess with and destroy. Most people aren't conscientious of the harm they can create by messing with animals such as chameleons, especially little kids. Honestly, unless you know your personal breeder, I don't think any of us really knows how our animals are treated before they get to us. I guess that where we all need to do our homework.
hpc1979
Established Member
I've come across this quite a few times. The place I actually bought my Jackson from had strict rules about customers buying certain animals. The store I bought my Cham from required their customers to have prior reptile experience before they would sell them a Cham. On top of that, if you are a first time Chameleon owner, you can only buy certain types of Chameleons from them.
Then I've also been on the flip side, where I've had to explain to customers at other pet stores I've been to, about the dedication and knowledge it takes to raise a chameleon. I've also talked out several parents in buying their kids chameleons. I even had a kid get real mad because I did so. I gave the same advice, buy a Bearded Dragon first. They actually make great pets. Most kids just don't realize it. But I won't lie. My first pet was a Veiled Chameleon. I caged it incorrectly. I heated and lighted it wrong too. It actually lived for about 5 years until he died. I guess I got lucky.
Then I've also been on the flip side, where I've had to explain to customers at other pet stores I've been to, about the dedication and knowledge it takes to raise a chameleon. I've also talked out several parents in buying their kids chameleons. I even had a kid get real mad because I did so. I gave the same advice, buy a Bearded Dragon first. They actually make great pets. Most kids just don't realize it. But I won't lie. My first pet was a Veiled Chameleon. I caged it incorrectly. I heated and lighted it wrong too. It actually lived for about 5 years until he died. I guess I got lucky.
Alexl
Avid Member
You can own a tortoise for years and keep it totally wrong. That's "reptile experience"? The time you owned an animal has nothing to do with your knowledge as keeper or the quality of keeping. I've seen lots of people telling me their setup worked "for years" and it was disastrously. They even didn't notice their animals being sick. Most buyed their animals at local pet stores, whose employees gave them bad advices. I only know a few shops who can really inform their customers about proper reptile care.
AshleyClark007
Member
I bought mine from petsmart. I went there to buy food for my turtles and I was looking at the reps while waiting for the fish. Well I was looking in to the cages and I seen this little cute green thing just watching at me. He followed my every move. I just fell in love with him. I went home and I just couldn't stop thinking of him. So the next day I went back to buy him and when I was telling the people that I wanted him they kept telling me they didn't have an rep like that. I made them look for over 2 hours. Finally they found him. While they searched and searched they were positive they didn't have any. So my point about this reply is, They didn't know they had a Chameleon so they weren't taking care of her properly. But now I have her and she's amazing in every way.
But now I have her and she's amazing in every way. 
djfishygillz
Avid Member
Full grown tortured female jackson
Hi, I saw a full grown female jacksons in a 8 foot by 1 foot square container. The poor thing looked like it was in hell...
Hi, I saw a full grown female jacksons in a 8 foot by 1 foot square container. The poor thing looked like it was in hell...
pssh
Avid Member
They generally don't know how to care for their chameleons, and when someone tells them that their husbandry is incorrect or the animal is ill/will become ill, they just don't care or don't do anything about it. Most of the stories about petco/petsmart on here happen something like that. Plus some of the products they sell and recommend can be dangerous for the chameleons, especially when the owner isn't educated about the animal and product.
The ones around me seem to not keep chameleons, which is great. There is one that is further away that had a poor jacksons chameleon (that looked pregnant) who was sitting in a 8x8x10 tank that was dripping water (it was completely soaked.) The temperature was almost 100 degrees and she was stressing out about the pac man frog in the same tank.
The ones around me seem to not keep chameleons, which is great. There is one that is further away that had a poor jacksons chameleon (that looked pregnant) who was sitting in a 8x8x10 tank that was dripping water (it was completely soaked.) The temperature was almost 100 degrees and she was stressing out about the pac man frog in the same tank.
AllFallDown
New Member
Agreed. I know this thread has run a bit cold but I thought I would jump in before it becomes socially unacceptable to resurrect it.
I have commented a few times about the big chain pet stores on the forum. My gripe was stated perfectly by Carol. I have nothing wrong with Pet<insert rest of storename here> per se. I have said before, our local Petco is actually pretty good. The people that currently work there do seem to make an honest effort to educate themselves. They do seem to have a sense of compasion for the well being of their animals. Would I automatically follow one of their employee's husbandry directions word for word? Heck no! Of course I would never do that even if I got a cham from a long time breeder. I would still do my research.
The problem with larger pet chains (Petco included) is often they do not carefully screen their employees for their background knowledge. I speculate that the training is probably product based rather than husbandry based (this is pure speculation- I have never worked for a pet store). My suspicion is rather than train their employees on the needs of each species they house, they rely on their pre-approved habitat setups (which I imagine are more concerned with animal visibility rather than animal comfort) and give general "reptile care guidelines".
Once again, pure speculation, I am just going off my observations and interactions. This is different from store to store I am sure.
Last thought....
I am of the mindset that petstores are temporary homes for pets. In an ideal world, a petstore would offer its pets 5-star hotel conditions, 100% individualized care, and a perfect rainforest for them to live in (for those animals who would appreciate that sort of thing...). The thing is, they are a temporary home. That 5-star treatment is the job of the person that ultimately adopts those pets. I think petstores should be here to provide them with their basic needs, good nutrition and a a humane(granted this could open a whole new discussion itself) environment until they are adopted. So personally, when I see animals in petstores which are not in optimal conditions but appear to be healthy and relatively comfortable- I do not get as nervous. When I walk into a perstore and see 6 sub-adult chameleons and a day gecko crammed into one cage with nothing but a fake plant, a rock, a dish full of mealworms and a water dish- I start asking to see the animals (to check them out as a potential customer of course), start asking questions about their care then ultimately ask to speak with the manager.
I rarely see things this bad at our local big chain stores. Sometimes I see things that make me nervous but a week worth of keeping an eye on things and checking on said animals generally sets my mind at ease as I realize my perceptions were false.
Back to the point. The big problem, I feel, is that their employees are trained to present themselves as experts and are often convinced they are experts. The truth is they often are not, but their confidence and charisma buys the trust of their customers ultimatly leading to the customer buying bad, unqualified information. This is the nature of the problem IMO.
Carol said it more succinctly. I really should get off the internet it is like 1:00am here and I am doing carnivorous plant propagation stuff so I am like half awake and rambling.....
Oh well...
AllFallDown
New Member
Yeah..... our local petsmart is not quite as good as the local petco. I asked to see a jackson's chameleon one time. The guy picked it up by its back (ie almost like you would pick up a kitten by the scruff of its neck) and yanked it off its tree. I tried tell him "never mind its alright I can see him from above if he does not want to come out" but he pulled him off anyway. I then showed him how I grab chameleons. I was a tad bit annoyed. I think the guy was new though, I had not seen him in there before.
Goes to show you, its less about the name and more about the people in the store (to a degree of course...). The fish department at that same store is awesome and always has healthy fish. The local "Fish specialists" in town... I was in there today and saw 5 tanks with floaters and at least two with fish infested with Ich. Go figure. (Of course, since the new owner took over that store has really gone down in quality IMO) Lately, their coral selection has just been LAME! Oh well. Im rambling again.
AllFallDown
New Member
No kidding! My Bearded Dragon is Awesome!! So much personality. Like a little puppy with spikes!
GarynTampa
New Member
We have a Pet Supermarket here in Tampa that we regularly buy our dog food from.
This last trip there was the turning point as my wife bought a young Jackson's Cham for our grandson.
The salesperson was just that...a SALES person.
They sold my wife things she didn't need, improper substrate, a water dish, and gave her a LOT of "care information" that was completely out of the box for this species.
Once home, we did some Jackson research and quickly found out some of the critical things that our grandson now provides. Fortunately, his little guy is doing great in a new cage, live plants, CORRECT FOOD, misting and care.
That weekend was the beginning our own venture into the new world of our Ambanja Panther. After extensive reading and cage construction, plants, misting system and a farm-load of different insects for feeding, we located a Pet Shop in St. Pete, specializing in exotic pets.
Their staff spent literally HOURS with us and provided some great support PRIOR to us making the purchase.
I've called them on 2 occasions, just asking their opinions and again, they treated us like a "valued customer" should be treated. On 2 more occasions, they have called me just to check in on how our Cham was doing.
I could have made a poor, uneducated purchase myself, but chose to go the other route and educate myself, prepare for the particular species we chose, learned proper housing needs and nutritional requirements BEFORE bringing our Cham home.
This has PAID OFF tremendously.
We still visit Pet Supermarket, but ONLY for our canned dog food! Leave the exotics to professionals!
Gary
Tampa, FL
This last trip there was the turning point as my wife bought a young Jackson's Cham for our grandson.
The salesperson was just that...a SALES person.
They sold my wife things she didn't need, improper substrate, a water dish, and gave her a LOT of "care information" that was completely out of the box for this species.
Once home, we did some Jackson research and quickly found out some of the critical things that our grandson now provides. Fortunately, his little guy is doing great in a new cage, live plants, CORRECT FOOD, misting and care.
That weekend was the beginning our own venture into the new world of our Ambanja Panther. After extensive reading and cage construction, plants, misting system and a farm-load of different insects for feeding, we located a Pet Shop in St. Pete, specializing in exotic pets.
Their staff spent literally HOURS with us and provided some great support PRIOR to us making the purchase.
I've called them on 2 occasions, just asking their opinions and again, they treated us like a "valued customer" should be treated. On 2 more occasions, they have called me just to check in on how our Cham was doing.
I could have made a poor, uneducated purchase myself, but chose to go the other route and educate myself, prepare for the particular species we chose, learned proper housing needs and nutritional requirements BEFORE bringing our Cham home.
This has PAID OFF tremendously.
We still visit Pet Supermarket, but ONLY for our canned dog food! Leave the exotics to professionals!
Gary
Tampa, FL
ZPavDesign
New Member
Petsmart is full of uneducated people who work there but every once in awhile they have someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Luckly there's a girl that works at the one closest to me that is their "reptile girl" that is also going to school to be a exotic vet.
pssh
Avid Member
I agree that they are temporary homes, so a lot of the things that many come on here to complain about I don't see as an issue. There is a distinct line that I draw though. The problem is that a lot of the time, since they are not always educated about the specific animals, they don't give them the basic care specific to the animal. Examples: a water bowl, in my opinion, is not an issue at a store as long as the animal gets proper hydration from misting or a dripper. Cage size is also less of an issue as long as the animal can at least move around and have climbing space.
It bothers me so much that the care sheets petco/petsmart have would generally sustain the chameleon (veileds, panthers, maybe jacksons) but the employees don't bother to read them or even use them as a guide to help the new owners buy supplies. I mean, just look at the care sheet I'm putting at the bottom of my reply! It correctly advises using a variety of gutloaded insects, misting at least 4-5 times a day for a "cool climate" chameleon plus a dripper, getting a good book, using calcium most feedings and a multivitamin once or twice a week (a little much but better than none!) using good UVB, an appropriately sized screen cage, no substrate needed (although it has a few on there for people who want it,) using non-toxic live plants, correct temperatures, etc.
http://www.petco.com/assets/caresheets/lizards/Chameleon_Cool Climate.pdf
AllFallDown
New Member
Fantastic story! +1 rep for you good sir!
AllFallDown
New Member
Fine points. Jumping off of that, a big problem I see is often they do not know they do not know. To give an example with plants- I cannot being to tell you how many times I have been in a plant nursery, mentioned something to an employee about a plant which perhaps contradicts something they have said (for example, one lady told me that our climate was terrible for growing most plants to which I replied- "Actually, we live in a great climate for a wide range of plants since our winters are very mild") and gotten the reply "Look, I have been working in the nursery trade for 10 years..." (that was the above mentioned ladies response). This was such a case. I was correct, many would corroborate my point. I have the proof at my house. I grow some of the most difficult plants to grow out there. I am not trying to gloat or anything the point here (and I want to say, I do respect this person very much and fully acknowledge that she has me completely beat on cactii and succulents!) is that because she has been doing this so long and has worked successfully under her paradigm for so long, she has bought into it. It has become part of her experience. This made it hard for her to consider that maybe she was wrong. (Dont get me started on Venus Flytraps either... oh boy...)
I think this happens with a lot of petstore people. They build a certain paradigm for how these animals need to be cared for based on their short term in-store interactions with them, perhaps reading some literature, knowing the store products and getting some feedback from customers. The problem here is it seems that if your store carries say 30 animals (a conservative estimate of course) it is very difficult to get real indepth experience with all 30. So they pass along information which might be rooted in well meaning intentions but has not been challanged and refined in the almighty fire and forge of experience.
Just my $0.02
