Panther Chameleon Help!

[Jakester212]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Panther, Male, About 5 Months, and 4 months and 2 weeks.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? 2-4 times a week
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Mainly superworms, He likes crickets and Meal Worms, but doesnt like hornworms, roaches, or earthworms. 2-4 Superworms every day. I try to feed him during the afternoon everyday. I haven't done too much gut loading just due to my lack of knowledge on what to feed them --Recently he hasn't been eating really anything other than superworms or mealworms.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I have Zoomed Repticalcium I would usually dust his food about a day a week, but recently have been trying to do more 2-3 times a week. I just bought the liquid Zilla vitamin supplement food spray with Beta Carotene.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I have a waterfall that runs all the way down the cage. I mist about once or twice a day mostly for the plants. I have seen him drink out of the waterfall. I usually try to spray his eyes to clean them out, someone told me to do this.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? His poop is mostly grayish brown. Couldnt get him to give a stool sample because he hasnt been eating the past couple days.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I have taken him to the Vet twice now and his eyes have been checked they both were in great shape, he weighed 42 grams, they gave me some stuff to inject in his mouth for the possibility of parisites, every 2 weeks. I also have a syringe and powder food to feed him if necessary.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Glass All around with screen top and double doors. 18x18x36in. Palodarium!
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Zoo Med 75w Reptibasking spot lamp bulb, Zilla 20w flouressant bulb, Led panel for plants.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? His basking spot is usually 90-95, regular tank is around 70-75. I have a Zoo Med temperature and Humidity guage
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity is usually 50-60%, I have been trying to get it higher. I have a waterfall and fish tank at the bottom so I would assume it would put off a good amount of humidity but I dont think its enough? Was thinking about covering half of the screen on top to keep more humidity in.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? The whole tank is Live Plants, I have a pothos, an umbrealla tree, and many various types off moss and sometimes mushrooms.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Its in my bedroom, I usually have my ceiling fan running at all times, it is definetly in a high traffic area and he is walked by a lot.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? I am in Lawrence, Kansas
• Cage Description - I built this cage myself from just a glass cage, I used spray foam to build the molding along with 100% silicone, I then put many rocks, plants, sticks, bark, Moss and many other things onto the moulding to create my landscape. I added many vines and some little platforms for the cham to hangout on. The bottom is meant to be a fish tank although I dont keep any fish in there. I have a filter in the fish tank next to the waterfall pump. It took a very long time to create and almost just as long to make sure it was safe for cham to be in.(washing it out over and over etc) Any other questions please let me know

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
Recently my Chameleon Dino has been acting pretty weird and out of sorts, it started with him closing one eye every once in a while and then to him closing both of his eyes a little bit of the day. And has now progressed to him Having both of his eyes closed for most of the day, he has also been rubbing both of his eyes on different sticks and branches. He hasnt been moving around nearly as much as he usually does, and has been darker recently than he usually is. Last night I found some yellow eye boogers on one of his eyes, i tried getting it off with a qtip but didnt have much luck getting it all off. It just turned cold here but our interior temperatirue really hasnt changed. He just seems on edge and its scaring me. I syringe fed him a little bit today because he was trying to sleep pretty much all day. I have taken him to the vet twice now in the past couple days which has stressed him out a little bit.

 

[Kaizen]

Ok, so thanks for filling out the form! There’s a few husbandry changes you should probably make. First super worms are a rare treat, and should be given once a week max. Meal worms are never a good idea. Crickets, roaches and silkworms should be your regular food items, with hornworms, and occasionally wax worms as treats. I know you said he doesn’t like them, but a little tough love is needed here. Crickets and roaches should be gutloaded. This is crucial. If you’re not comfortable making your own gutload from healthy fruits and veggies (I’ll give you a list below), then just use repashy bug burger or repashy superload. As for dusting, get repashy calcium plus LoD and use at every feeding. Stop using any other supplements until you have a routine down—the calcium plus is an all in one.

You should probably ditch the waterfall ASAP. They’re bacteria houses that do far more harm than good. Your Cham should be misted three times a day for five minutes at least.

Your basking temps are too hot. I have veileds, who like it hotter than panthers, and they see maximum 85 degrees.

Please be more specific about your lighting. Currently, the only lighting endorsed on this site is a linear t5 high output fixture with either a 5-6% o 10-12% uvb output. As there aren’t any 20 watt versions of this, I’m guessing you don’t have this kind of lighting.

I’m not sure about the ceiling fan, and the traffic; a lot will depend on the actual conditions: eg does the fan blow directly on him? Is the traffic restricted to just you?


in short, your feeding regime, including what you’re feeding and your gutloading needs to be changed ASAP. As does your supplementing regime, see above. Your watering regime, and waterfall also need to be adjusted, as do your temps.

products recommended:
- Repashy calcium plus LoD: dust insects at every feeding
- repashy big buger, or superload: as a complete gutload for your feeders. Mix with water to make a gel, and you don’t have to provide additional water. Consider combining this with other healthy gutload ingredients (see below)
- a linear t5 high output fluorescent fixture and bulb: reptisun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% are the two I know
- an automatic mister such as a mistking: the starter kits start at a little over$100.

Good gutload ingredients:
Gutload ingredients

Arugula

Alfalfa plant not sprout

Basil

Banana

Prickly pear

Cheerios

Collards

Dandelion

Endive

Escarole

Figs

Grape leaves

Grapefruit

Hibiscus flower and leaves

Mustard greens

Okra

Canned olives (pitted)

Oranges

Papaya

Peppermint leaves

Rosemary

Kelp

Butternut squash

Spaghetti squash

Turnip greens

Sweet potatoes

Spirulina

Mulberry leaves

Yams

 

[Jakester212]

Ok, so thanks for filling out the form! There’s a few husbandry changes you should probably make. First super worms are a rare treat, and should be given once a week max. Meal worms are never a good idea. Crickets, roaches and silkworms should be your regular food items, with hornworms, and occasionally wax worms as treats. I know you said he doesn’t like them, but a little tough love is needed here. Crickets and roaches should be gutloaded. This is crucial. If you’re not comfortable making your own gutload from healthy fruits and veggies (I’ll give you a list below), then just use repashy bug burger or repashy superload. As for dusting, get repashy calcium plus LoD and use at every feeding. Stop using any other supplements until you have a routine down—the calcium plus is an all in one.

You should probably ditch the waterfall ASAP. They’re bacteria houses that do far more harm than good. Your Cham should be misted three times a day for five minutes at least.

Your basking temps are too hot. I have veileds, who like it hotter than panthers, and they see maximum 85 degrees.

Please be more specific about your lighting. Currently, the only lighting endorsed on this site is a linear t5 high output fixture with either a 5-6% o 10-12% uvb output. As there aren’t any 20 watt versions of this, I’m guessing you don’t have this kind of lighting.

I’m not sure about the ceiling fan, and the traffic; a lot will depend on the actual conditions: eg does the fan blow directly on him? Is the traffic restricted to just you?


in short, your feeding regime, including what you’re feeding and your gutloading needs to be changed ASAP. As does your supplementing regime, see above. Your watering regime, and waterfall also need to be adjusted, as do your temps.

products recommended:
- Repashy calcium plus LoD: dust insects at every feeding
- repashy big buger, or superload: as a complete gutload for your feeders. Mix with water to make a gel, and you don’t have to provide additional water. Consider combining this with other healthy gutload ingredients (see below)
- a linear t5 high output fluorescent fixture and bulb: reptisun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% are the two I know
- an automatic mister such as a mistking: the starter kits start at a little over$100.

Good gutload ingredients:
Gutload ingredients

Arugula

Alfalfa plant not sprout

Basil

Banana

Prickly pear

Cheerios

Collards

Dandelion

Endive

Escarole

Figs

Grape leaves

Grapefruit

Hibiscus flower and leaves

Mustard greens

Okra

Canned olives (pitted)

Oranges

Papaya

Peppermint leaves

Rosemary

Kelp

Butternut squash

Spaghetti squash

Turnip greens

Sweet potatoes

Spirulina

Mulberry leaves

Yams

Thank you so much for the detailed reply!! I am a relatively unexperienced Chameleon owner so I have tried to do my best for him. I really do love the waterfall but if it isnt practical and could hurt him I will get rid of it. When you say misted 3 times a day for 5 minutes is that a total of 15 minutes or more, of misting a day? Also for the basking temp I have been going off of information from a packet on panther chameleons from Lafebervet that a Vetrenarian gave me a while ago. It says it should reach over 95F is that incorrect? My lights are in a pretty basic Zoomed double light deep dome fixture not exactly sure about the specs, the Heat bulb is a 75 watt "reptibasking spot lamp". The fan is in the middle of the room and my Cham is off to the side, he definetly catches some of the circulation but maybe not enough. The traffic is mostly just me, I live in a house with 8 guys..... so i do have a good amount of people going in and out throughout the day. I will definetly buy all of those reccomended products thank you again your a life saver!! I would really love to keep the waterfall if i can are there any improvements i could make to hopefully prevent it from hurting the cham? Here is the UVB bulb I have https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...b1w0r36Mays-4tjv5pXNCk8hkzs-AiHxoC7AcQAvD_BwE

 

[kinyonga]

What did the vets say? What did they do or recommend?
This eye issue needs to be solved quickly IMHO.

It's a real possibility that the fountain is the main reason for his eye issues. They are hard to keep clean enough. What's more important...a healthy chameleon or a nice looking fountain?
What do you mean you have an aquarium in the bottom of the cage?

Are all the plants, mosses, etc non toxic. Well washed both sides of the leaves?

Additional comments...
Feeding him in the afternoon doesn't give him as much time to digest his food as feeding him in the morning would do.

you said..."I have taken him to the Vet twice now and his eyes have been checked" and what did the vets say about them being kept shut, etc?

You said..." they both were in great shape, he weighed 42 grams"... I'm assuming you mean other than the eye issues?

You said..." they gave me some stuff to inject in his mouth for the possibility of parisites" ... Without running a fecal this is not a great idea IMHO. There are many species of parasites and one medication doesn't kill them all...so it's going to be hit and miss....shotgun approach.

You said..."I also have a syringe and powder food to feed him if necessary."... What is the name of the powder food?

 

[Jakester212]

They looked in his eyes and said both of them looked great, they looked in his mouth and said it looks a little bland and should be pinker. Then they gave me the parisite medicine and showed me how to put it in his mouth along with the food. The vet thought I needed a new UVB and stronger Heat lamp(bought new ones today) the new heat lamp was too hot for him. She wanted me to keep monitoring the temperatures and bring in a stool sample when I could get one along with starting to add more supplements. And said call back if he starts getting worse. Wasnt too helpful so I wasnt sure what to do.

 

[Jakester212]

What did the vets say? What did they do or recommend?

They looked in his eyes and said both of them looked great, they looked in his mouth and said it looks a little bland and should be pinker. Then they gave me the parisite medicine and showed me how to put it in his mouth along with the food. The vet thought I needed a new UVB and stronger Heat lamp(bought new ones today) the new heat lamp was too hot for him. She wanted me to keep monitoring the temperatures and bring in a stool sample when I could get one along with starting to add more supplements. And said call back if he starts getting worse. Wasnt too helpful so I wasnt sure what to do.

 

[kinyonga]

I added to my last post.

 

[kinyonga]

If the vets are telling you that those eyes are ok you need to get a new vet...he shouldn't be closing them and they shouldn't be looking like they do IMHO.

Regarding supplements...there are several ways to do the supplements....you can use Repashy LoD ( I can't speak about it because I've never used it but many on here do) or you can use 3 other supplements, which is what I've done for many years.
For the powders.... I use RepCal phos free calcium powder dusted on the insects lightly just before feeding them to the chameleon at almost every feeding. I dust with phos free calcium/D3 powder lightly twice a month and with Herptivite twice a month lightly.
This vitamin powder is safe because it contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A which won't build up in the system. This leaves it up to,you to decide when/if it needs any prEformed vitaminA. PrEformed vitamin A can build up in the system and lead to health issues. D3 from supplements can also build up which is why I dust with it only twice a month and leave the chameleon to produce the rest of its D3 from its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from UVB exposure won't overdose as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will.

I hope this helps.

 

[Jakester212]

What did the vets say? What did they do or recommend?
This eye issue needs to be solved quickly IMHO.

It's a real possibility that the fountain is the main reason for his eye issues. They are hard to keep clean enough. What's more important...a healthy chameleon or a nice looking fountain?
What do you mean you have an aquarium in the bottom of the cage?

Are all the plants, mosses, etc non toxic. Well washed both sides of the leaves?

Additional comments...
Feeding him in the afternoon doesn't give him as much time to digest his food as feeding him in the morning would do.

you said..."I have taken him to the Vet twice now and his eyes have been checked" and what did the vets say about them being kept shut, etc?

You said..." they both were in great shape, he weighed 42 grams"... I'm assuming you mean other than the eye issues?

You said..." they gave me some stuff to inject in his mouth for the possibility of parisites" ... Without running a fecal this is not a great idea IMHO. There are many species of parasites and one medication doesn't kill them all...so it's going to be hit and miss....shotgun approach.

You said..."I also have a syringe and powder food to feed him if necessary."... What is the name of the powder food?

Wow that really sucks to hear but obviously a healthy Chameleon..... The tank is called a palodarium which is a terrarium with a fish tank at the bottom, the idea is to put fish in the bottom and a reptile on the top. Although i have no fish in the tank i just use it as a resevouir for the fountain. All of the plants are forsure non toxic and i washed them. I dont know about the moss as I found a lot of it outside, but i would wash it off extensively before putting it in the tank. I will try to start feeding him in the morning. The vets were not sure they mostly attributed it to either a parisite or infection, they just kept saying he looks pretty healthy and to switch up his diet and tweak the lights. Not very helpful. They just said his eyes looked good she looked at them with a microscope, he wont close his eyes when your looking at him but when I walk away and come back he is asleep a lot of the time. They said it didnt really look inflamed and that it all looked very normal. I wasnt aware about the medicine being hit or miss, the vet said it killed most types of parasites. The medicine is metronidazole (1ml every 2 weeks). the food is called Oxbow Carnivore Care.

 

[Jakester212]

The Vets said it was going to be a proccess. I agree it does need to get fixed quickly he doesnt look too good.

 

[kinyonga]

i see that there is water in the fish tank part....how often do you change it or is it on a filter system like a normal fish tank is?

This might help...metronidazole (flagyl) treats mostly protozoans...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/02SepVassiliev.html

 

[Jakester212]

Yes the fish tank part is filled and I clean it pretty often I would say I go in there with tweezers every 3 days and give it a good cleaning and about once every two weeks or week I use a fish tank cleaner to get all the particles out and do a water change. His poop and leftover food gets in there sometimes and makes it dirty. I do have a normal fish tank filter that runs in the day. And very interesting thanks for attaching the article. So she gave me a good medicine but without the proper proof that it’s needed. And I need to be really really careful about dosing if I continue with it.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

If the vets are telling you that those eyes are ok you need adore rent vet...he shouldn't be closing them and they shouldn't be looking like they do IMHO.

Regarding supplements...there are several ways to do the supplements....you can use Repashy LoD ( I can't speak about it because I've never used it but many on here do) or you can use 3 other supplements, which is what I've done for many years.
For the powders.... I use RepCal phos free calcium powder dusted on the insects lightly just before feeding them to the chameleon at almost every feeding. I dust with phos free calcium/D3 powder lightly twice a month and with Herptivite twice a month lightly.
This vitamin powder is safe because it contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A which won't build up in the system. This leaves it up to,you to decide when/if it needs any prEformed vitaminA. PrEformed vitamin A can build up in the system and lead to health issues. D3 from supplements can also build up which is why I dust with it only twice a month and leave the chameleon to produce the rest of its D3 from its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from UVB exposure won't overdose as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will.

I hope this helps.

I believe the eyes being closed is how this Panther is dealing with the stress of its environment, wrong lighting, and malnourishment. I don't believe he has a problem with its eyes. I think he's just super super stressed

 

[KRGEE21]

I believe the eyes being closed is how this Panther is dealing with the stress of its environment, wrong lighting, and malnourishment. I don't believe he has a problem with its eyes. I think he's just super super stressed

I agree with the notes above regarding the lighting and feeders/supplementation. Also am sure you put a lot of work into the waterfall/tank portion of the enclosure but it simply isn't a good environment for a cham. I would stop using it and empty out the tank portion.

 

[Kaizen]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply!! I am a relatively unexperienced Chameleon owner so I have tried to do my best for him. I really do love the waterfall but if it isnt practical and could hurt him I will get rid of it. When you say misted 3 times a day for 5 minutes is that a total of 15 minutes or more, of misting a day? Also for the basking temp I have been going off of information from a packet on panther chameleons from Lafebervet that a Vetrenarian gave me a while ago. It says it should reach over 95F is that incorrect? My lights are in a pretty basic Zoomed double light deep dome fixture not exactly sure about the specs, the Heat bulb is a 75 watt "reptibasking spot lamp". The fan is in the middle of the room and my Cham is off to the side, he definetly catches some of the circulation but maybe not enough. The traffic is mostly just me, I live in a house with 8 guys..... so i do have a good amount of people going in and out throughout the day. I will definetly buy all of those reccomended products thank you again your a life saver!! I would really love to keep the waterfall if i can are there any improvements i could make to hopefully prevent it from hurting the cham? Here is the UVB bulb I have https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...b1w0r36Mays-4tjv5pXNCk8hkzs-AiHxoC7AcQAvD_BwE

So here’s the deal with the waterfall, and fish tank at the bottom: The only way to ensure each has nothing but clean sterile water is to use either a high intensity ultraviolet sterilizer or an ozonator. Water gets pumped through a chamber with either the sterilizing ultraviolet C light, or else mixed with ozone. Both sterilize the water. Again, the cost here isn’t worth the trouble. I’d either scrap the water feature, or else buy a new screened enclosure 2x2x4, and use it for your Cham, and put a water dragon or something in the paladrium

 

[kinyonga]

IMHO if he eyes were simply closed due to stress they wouldn't be swollen or baggy. I know some lights can cause eye issues ....but I don't know if those ones do.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

IMHO if he eyes were simply closed due to stress they wouldn't be swollen or baggy. I know some lights can cause eye issues ....but I don't know if those ones do.

I see it more clearly now once I ZooMed in on the eyes. You're right. Seems to even have some pus like discharge as well

 

[Jakester212]

IMHO if he eyes were simply closed due to stress they wouldn't be swollen or baggy. I know some lights can cause eye issues ....but I don't know if those ones do.

He also had been rubbing them on branches which could have caused the swelling.

 

[Jakester212]

Just a quick update,

Today I went and turned the waterfall off and emptied out the fish tank, cleaned all the moss and dirt up. Then I went to the pet store and bought a new reptisun 5.0 bulb and fixture along with an automatic mister and bought him a variety of food. I went home and he was still awake after cleaning it out and looked decent, I dusted some crickets and threw them in for him and got him to eat about 6 mediums! Have been misting the leaves for him all day although I’m not sure he drank any of it. He then started doing much better and it seems he’s alright for now I will give another update soon. Thanks for the help

—-one quick question what is the correct humidity range for my panther chameleon?

 

[Jakester212]

I see it more clearly now once I ZooMed in on the eyes. You're right. Seems to even have some pus like discharge as well

Ya we removed the pus(although it was hard not really pus) with a q tip and some saline and since then I haven’t seen any more. Not sure what to think of it definitely looking out for more.