Pan's Tongue was Amputated

[pssh]

So three days ago my 5 year old male veiled Pan had to get his tongue amputated. He somehow managed to get an infection and then swallow his tongue before the vet could see him. I couldnt get it out from his stomach and it was too damaged to save by the next day (when the vet was in.) I have to give him antibiotic injections every three days now. He has already learned to drink from a syringe by putting it in his mouth when I drip it on his nose. However,*I'm not sure when I can start feeding him. He seems to be doing well except for his eye which was fine before the surgery but now it looks messed up. Its kind of baggy and a little swollen. It appears to be getting better, but if not, the vet said he will take a look at it for free since it appears to have happened while he was put under.*

When he swallowed his tongue it basically looked like Olympia's photo in this thread, except when it was pulled out it didnt look nearly as good.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/tongue-swallowing-54957/

So, for those of you who have had to deal with an injury/surgery like this, when should I start feeding him? He appears to be well enough that He could try today, but I want to get your opinions before I try. Before I knew he was having issues with his tongue he tried to eat a cricket out of my fingers without shooting his tongue (and then proceeded to spit his tongue out and bite it, which is when I realized he needed a vet visit.) So I think he will take to eating well since he knew what to do before, but you never know. Also, how long did your chameleon take to learn to eat from a cup by himself?*

And for the vets/people with experience, his teeth became brown after the surgery. Is this from a medication or something? Is this normal?

 

[carol5208]

Kara, I don't have any knowledge or input on this subject but just wanted to tell you I am so sorry for what happened to your chameleon and I hope he gets better soon and can live out the rest of his life with quality. I know he is in good hands and wish you both all the best!

 

[pssh]

Thank you very much Carol. He seems to be adjusting well as far as I can tell. It was very sad to watch him try to drink water with his stub of a tongue for the first time. He figured it out after a few minutes, but he still tried to use it on the second day. He also HATES his Injections and having a towel put over his face. I was thinking about putting him in a box so that he is asleep when I put the towel over his head and possibly inject him. Does anyone have any input on doing this?

 

[reptoman]

No helpful input from me either but wanted to wish you and your veiled well. Hope he recovers and eats easily without the tongue.

 

[ataraxia]

Hi, I dont have any experience with amputation of the tongue either.

For what it is worth. Personally, I would worry about pieces of bugs or even the fluids from a bug getting into the wound. I would wait till you have ran the course of the antibiotic. The wound should be healed by then.

Good luck with your guy.

 

[pssh]

The antibiotic is supposed to be given for 21 days (one shot every 3 days) so that would be a mighty long time to withhold food from him when he is trying to heal like this.

 

[Olimpia]

I tried feeding Charlotte almost immediately, within the first couple days. She didn't necessarily like eating, since it was probably painful for her, but she was interested and would at least take one feeder.

Charlotte never learned how to cup feed, I don't know why, but she did tweezer/hand feed like a champ after a few weeks. It just took her forever to stop trying to shoot out her stump. I used to have to slip the cricket into her mouth when she tried to shoot her stump so she thought she was actually catching them, otherwise she would get frustrated and stop trying. So at least that way she was managing to eat something.

It took some time but it became easier. Sorry you're in these shoes now!

 

[pssh]

Alright. I'll try feeding him within the next few days and see how he reacts. If he seems to be in pain or completely uninterested, I'll wait a few more days and try again. He started to put on a little weight before this all happened, so he should be fine for at least a little while (but not 3 weeks I would think.)

Thanks for the advice/help!

 

[ataraxia]

Wow, 21 days...Is he of good weight? If so, he will be able to go the distance.

Reptiles do heal quickly. So, truly if your worried about infecting the wound. I would imagine within 7-14 days the wound should be healed good enough.

I have had rehab cases where they could not shoot their tongue. Most do adjust well. You may have to find his niche though. Tongue feeding, hand feeding, cup feeding, disabling the insect so that it is much slower, etc.

 

[laurie]

Kara I am sorry to hear of Pan losing his tongue. This must be awful for both you a Pan. Good luck.

 

[dom1959]

just want to add my good wishes.

 

[pssh]

Thanks for all the support!

Under normal circumstances, three weeks would be no problem without food, but since he is dealing with both tongue and eye issues (and he's on the older side,) I dont want to withhold food for too long just in case he gets worse/weaker and something really bad happens.

 

[jannb]

I am so sorry to hear about Pan. You should send Olimpia a PM and she should be able to give you some advice since she went through this with Charlotte.

 

[reptoman]

I have a 5 year old panther, Ziggy, that lost aim with his tongue over a year ago. I have been tong feeding him ever since with no problems at all. In fact, he will let me know he is hungry by opening and closing his mouth when I look into his cage. I feed him mostly dubia since they are larger and easier to handle with the tongs and easy to gutload but he is fed pretty much everything I have to offer with the exception of blue bottle flies. I have not had him turn down anything since he started the tong feeding. 1 to 2 feeders every 1 to 2 days.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Howdy.


The first three days I wouldn't try and feed him anything. Just hydrate and medicate. As for the injections..you may ask you vet for an oral med instead. That's what I used to since I avoided an injection at all costs. However if you do have to inject I used to do the front legs in the upper bicep and it was a two person job. One holds the animal while I would hold the arm and do the injection. Make sure the person holding the animal knows how to do that.

Feeding. For the next 18 days I would mix him up some liquid bug food and feed him once a day, just small amounts mind you to tide him over while the surgery heals. Mix in some multi vitamins about twice a week and go light on that. Once the meds are over I'd then teach him to accept food from my hand.

Also a good fat source of nutrition is a hefy silkworm. I'd take one appropriate for the size of the cham and just bum rush it in his mouth when he opens to grab it, doing that prevents him from shooting his stump until more time goes by. You can use this method if the bug juice is not your cup of tea. You'll figure out some other methods I'm sure but think along these lines.

Hope that helps

 

[Olimpia]

I just don't feel it's necessary to withould food, at all. Do you go a week without eating after you get your wisdom teeth removed? It's a surgical site with stitches, right? No, you go home and you eat some soup that night and you go on with life as usual the days after. The actual surgical site is so tiny (just the tip of his hyoid bone, really) that this will heal shut in a few days, not weeks.

If he's interested in food, then by all means let him have it. Now that I remember I started Charlotte out on a day or two of Carnivore Care from the vet, then soft worms like butters and horns that first week or so, and then started up again with crickets and roaches. But she definitely wasn't on liquid food for very long.

 

[pssh]

I went ahead and tried feeding him with what I have on hand (so no soft worms.) he was trying hus hardest to eat a small/medium dubia with lega cut off but couldnt get it down and ended up spiting it out. I offered him some medium sized pre-killed supers which he took very readily. It took him a few minutes to work out how to get it down, but after a little shaking and some help from gravity, he ate it. He then took two more with less of an issue.

 

[lovepicasso]

My Picasso lost his tongue on Christmas day and we had to feed him bug juice for a while, fed him with a syringe....now he will not eat out of a cup, he has tried but can't get the cricket or worm into his mouth without it falling out, so we feed him with tweezers or open his mouth with the middle of a Q-tip and stick the food in his mouth, if you do this you have to give him time to swallow it all before giving another.....Picasso will let us know if he wants another or not..........good luck wth feeding yours, sorry that it happened to him and if you would like to talk more about this, PM me.

 

[pssh]

Thanks for the tip about the Q-tip (I usually use a rubber spatula for this job, but Pan will open up if I hold/poke at his casque.)

He is doing a lot better than I thought he would. I mean, he even seems to be bonding with me (which is crazy since he used to try and bite me non stop before.) he still does some mild hissing or gaping when he has had enough of me, but he isnt killing my hand with his feet when I have to hold him or trying to take chunks out of my hand.

 

[kinyonga]

If the tongue is amputated very close to the end of the hyoid spike the chameleon seems to have little difficulty to learn to hunt insects like other lizard species do. If there is a flap/piece/section of skin left at the end of the spike it seems to cause confusion for the chameleon and it iell keep trying to adjust its tongue or to shoot it out. Just my experience...and its not a very wide experience since I haven't had many with tongue issues...thank goodness.

I have to agree with Olympian have its not necessary to withhold food.

Good luck with your chameleon pssh!