over supplementation?

[ScreamingIncognito]

what are symptoms of over supplementation? could that possibly be a cause of current eye issues with my now almost 8 month old panther? he was 6 months when i got him. i usually give calcium with d3 once or twice a week and multivitamin once or twice a week then just regular calcium the rest of the time with a day or two to rest the kidneys and liver and such every week or so. now that he is getting older should i start chilling out on supplementing? how do you know when to change the schedual?

 

[kinyonga]

Here's some information I hope will help you with things like supplements, gutloading, etc....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[fluxlizard]

What multivitamin are you using?

If it doesn't have vit a, only beta carotene, that could be the source of your eye problem (too little vit a rather than too much of something else).

Changing your schedule should be a reflection of growth rate- if your animal has slowed growth significantly, supplementation could be slowed as well.

 

[xanthoman]

more wild assumptions by xanthoman

if you want viable help with this issue, you should really fill out the help in its entirety and repost.

you werent all that specific, and i dont really like to get into advice on veileds, but, giving d3, 2x a week, especially if combined with a preformed vitamin a product (like reptivite) is almost certain to cause severe oversupplementation issues regardless of species.
further if you were using reptivite in addition to calcium with d3, reptivite also contains d3, so if you gave calcium with d3 2x a week, plus reptivite with d3+ preformed vitaminA acetate,2x a week, then you would be giving d3 4x a week, not 2x a week, if that is the scenario, then i would say that is definitely a huge problem regardless of species.

combine that with likely overdusting your feeders, likely feeding cricks too often, and i would say that strongly points to a likelyhood of extreme oversupplementation.

based on the assumption that oversupplementation is more than likely, imo, i would withhold any vitamin enhanced supplementation for at least 3 weeks, offering plain cal only minimally 1x a week and always having water available until you have had a chance to study supp issues further and formulate a reasonable plan.

dumping excessively dusted feeders from above, could also cause eye issues, regardless of vitamin content.

imo, at this point, the best thing you could do, would be to get it plenty of natural sun, clean water and stop supping anything but plain cal, this also includes gutload as well, many (most) commercial gutloads are also vitamin enhanced. im assuming you are feeding mostly cricks which are a poorly balanced feeder to begin with, so that isnt helping any. this will at least help to bring d3 issues back into balance, thereby eliminating d3 as part of the equation.

so imo, withholding food (especially cricks) for several days is imo, likely to do more good, than harm, in the mean time, probably a good idea to get some feeders other than cricks to start it up again, like silks or bottle flies.
if its too cold outside, a properly dialed in uva basking area will override that, but a close eye still needs to be kept. chams with severe metabolic issues cannot be relied upon to properly thermoregulate. a wind break should also be provided.

interior calcification could also be an issue, so it might be a good idea to try to get him to eat some d hydei, that have been raised on a vinegar based medium, but im not going to get into the reasons or specifics of that here, other than to say vinegar contains acetic acid which helps break the bond of calcium, and, imo, may be slightly helpful in issues of early interior calcification.

probably a good idea to gently flush his eye(s) using a needle-less, 10 cc syringe with saline or a commercially prepared eye wash that has been accurately heated to about 80* and then apply some ophthalmic terramycin (also heated to approx80*) which you can get here;

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Reptilestore.html

of course this is all based on a lot of assumptions, in place of information not given, so i could be wildly off base. jmo