Oven Fumes...

[luvbug237]

Hello everyone... so today I put my oven on the self clean cycle and my condo smells like complete crap and I am REALLY worried about the effects it had on my chameleons... can anyone shed some experiecnes or knowledge about this. I live in a somewhat small condo of 500 square feet so it's not big at all... I think I really hurt my boys doing this and I am a little scared and very heartbroken over the thought...

 

[laurie]

Get a fan and get as much as you can out. You are like me and can't take your chams out in the weather, but if you just have a couple of them, warm your car up really well, make sure you are where there is good ventilation , and spend a bit of time completely out of your apt. You can check with a vet, but I am not sure there is much to do except try to get the smell out, and get your chams some fresh air. Let me know how your kids are doing. Good luck.

 

[junglefries]

Know someone who did this, bad results. 3 dead, within a week. Little lungs can't handle it. Better to move chams to closed off room or outdoors, while doing.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have parrots and they die a really horrible death really, really easily when non-stick pots and pans (Teflon) is over heated. Sometimes heat lamp bulbs are coated in the stuff, too. It's even in clothing now.

I would guess that the inside of a self-cleaning oven might be coated with something that would be similar to Teflon.

It doesn't take too high a temperature for the chemicals in a non-stick coating to start off gassing, something like as low as 500F. The more used and worn the pot is, the lower the temperature it starts to off gass, sometimes as low as just over 400F.

The usual scenario for bird deaths is that a pot was left on the burner and forgotten, but it doesn't take much for the temperature to reach 500F when frying. It is a really horrible death. I've had vets describe their experience of trying desperately to save birds.

Bird people just never use non-stick cookware. The manufacturers of the chemicals have not been exactly forthright with the risks.

http://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen/teflon-offgas-studies

It gets into people, too, and causes all kinds of problems with compromised people like newborns.

Birds and reptiles are very similar although their respiratory system is not, which may be why birds are so easily killed.

If I use the self-cleaning feature (almost never) my birds (and now chameleons) will be out of the house for at least a day and the house will have windows and doors open and fans running for a day.

Teflon is a surprisingly toxic chemical.

 

[Lathis]

Ditto. We only run ours once a year in the summer when we can have the whole house open. I used to have finches and have always been overly paranoid about fumes from cookware, scented things, etc.

Plus that stuff isn't good for you either.

 

[zlew]

When I need to air out my bedroom which my chams are in, (tends to get a little smelly when water drips on the floor sometimes) I turn on a fan, open the window, and if it's cold out I give them both an extra heat lamp and turn on a space heater.

 

[luvbug237]

Oh boy looks like I will need to keep a very close eye on them the next few days.... I cannot believe this happened. I sure hope my babies don't die I'm not going to lie but when I came home at lunch yesteray they were both sleeping at noon when they should not have been so I think I have hurt them I am so crushed and again...heartbroken for what I did. It was my very first time using the self cleaning tool on my stove (I'm only 29 and apparently very stupid)!

 

[laurie]

Oh boy looks like I will need to keep a very close eye on them the next few days.... I cannot believe this happened. I sure hope my babies don't die I'm not going to lie but when I came home at lunch yesteray they were both sleeping at noon when they should not have been so I think I have hurt them I am so crushed and again...heartbroken for what I did. It was my very first time using the self cleaning tool on my stove (I'm only 29 and apparently very stupid)!

First, you are not stupid. That is an easy mistake to make, and we, who know better, forget to warn new keepers about this issue. All of us - and that includes the "experts", have done stupid things in our years of keeping chameleons. I am sure a few of mine died by things I did or didn't do as needed. All ou can do is try to save your chams. If you lose them, then you will need to pick up and start again. We are all here and will help as much as we can. At least you really care, that is a big plus.

 

[luvbug237]

They both ate pretty darn good this morning so that's good. I know how
quickly their health can change so I'm not out of the woods by any means but at least they had their appetites like normal.

 

[laurie]

That is a good sign. Just hang in there.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Oh boy looks like I will need to keep a very close eye on them the next few days.... I cannot believe this happened. I sure hope my babies don't die I'm not going to lie but when I came home at lunch yesteray they were both sleeping at noon when they should not have been so I think I have hurt them I am so crushed and again...heartbroken for what I did. It was my very first time using the self cleaning tool on my stove (I'm only 29 and apparently very stupid)!

Get them to a vet. They need support. If they truly have been affected by fumes, it is an emergency.

 

[jajeanpierre]

They both ate pretty darn good this morning so that's good. I know how
quickly their health can change so I'm not out of the woods by any means but at least they had their appetites like normal.

Did you clean the oven yesterday? And they are eating this morning? That's a really good sign. You are looking for respiratory distress.

 

[luvbug237]

Yes, I cleaned my oven yesterday and they both seem to be doing fine today... SEEM lol you just never know. They ate breakfast and lunch today those piggies hehe

They are both in their trees free ranging a little right now

Hopefully tomorrow will be jus as promising!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I'm so glad they are doing well. Hopefully you are out of the woods but really keep an eye out for respiratory distress in the coming weeks. You still might want to call your vet for advice even though your chameleons seem fine. The fact they were lethargic earlier is troubling.

My understanding of Teflon poisoning is that the lungs fill with fluid and the animal basically suffocates on it's own fluids in minutes or days. Birds are incredibly sensitive to air-borne toxins because of their unique respiratory system, but the same mechanisms (of poisoning) are involved with other species. If your chameleon had edema in the lungs, it could develop into pneumonia later.

I had a chicken inhale a very small amount of fluid into her lungs. She appeared fine, but developed secondary drowning symptoms the next day--this bird was gasping and suffocating in front of my eyes. The vet gave her a Lasix shot (to clear the lungs of the edema) that day and the next, and she was put on a course of Baytril injections for two weeks to prevent pneumonia developing. The Lasix shot immediately cleared the lungs and she recovered just fine.

Birds (which I have a lot of experience with) have a unique respiratory system that allows them to get a lot more oxygen across their lungs. (Amazingly, it is a one-way system.) It also allows them to absorb air-borne toxins more quickly and efficiently. That's why they used canaries in coal mines.

Chemical manufacturers are not quite forthcoming (dare I say honest?) about the side effects of a lot of things. They denied Teflon could kill birds for the longest time.

Teflon is in a lot of things you just wouldn't expect--the surface of irons, light bulbs, even in fabric. Be very aware when using these products. It doesn't take much for them to off gas their toxins. When "used as directed" it "should" be safe, but who hasn't forgotten a pot on the stove? Older, worn pans off gas at much lower temperatures than the specs for the product acknowledge (400F versus 500F). I have one non-stick pan in my house that I only only use to poach eggs. I don't even think it has any coating, so might not be a risk to my birds, however, I assume it is a danger. I stand at the stove watching the water boil (212F), so it will never overheat.

Keep us posted.

 

[absolutbill]

How are your guys doing today? Don't think of yourself as stupid - I'm 34, have only cleaned my oven once like that (not too much use), and would NEVER have thought of this! You are concerned, and watchful over them now, which are major steps in the right direction. Plus, you may have saved countless other chams when people like myself smack themselves in their heads and have a lightbulb go on!

 

[luvbug237]

My boys seems to be doing okay They're eating everyday and walking around. I did notice Mojo towards the bottom walking around the plant pot looking dark but he may have just been cold exploring down there. I stuck my hand in there and he came out, put him back up by his light and he changed right back to his bright self. Squirt has been acting a tad grumpy since it's happened. He doesn't want me in his house right now.. even when I feed him he puffs up a little until he sees something in my hands hen goes for it. He did just do a full body shed so maybe he is just a little uncomfortable and a little grouchy... maybe its winter

I still need to watch them carefully for a few more days I think to really make sure they are okay. Thanks everyone for your kind words and concern. I hope we pull through!!

 

[laurie]

I will keep hoping for you and the kids to make it ok. I was sure you would be ok. Give a daily update for a while if you have time. I like to know how they are.

 

[jajeanpierre]

My boys seems to be doing okay They're eating everyday and walking around. I did notice Mojo towards the bottom walking around the plant pot looking dark but he may have just been cold exploring down there. I stuck my hand in there and he came out, put him back up by his light and he changed right back to his bright self. Squirt has been acting a tad grumpy since it's happened. He doesn't want me in his house right now.. even when I feed him he puffs up a little until he sees something in my hands hen goes for it. He did just do a full body shed so maybe he is just a little uncomfortable and a little grouchy... maybe its winter

I still need to watch them carefully for a few more days I think to really make sure they are okay. Thanks everyone for your kind words and concern. I hope we pull through!!

I think you want to keep watching them for a few weeks in case they develop a secondary infection, like pneumonia. I'm sure they'll be fine. Keep us posted.

 

[larrodinero]

Wow, hope every is ok! Best of wishes!

 

[luvbug237]

They are doing the same today, they seem okay. They both ate and drank some water. Mojo is learning a new trick that he needs to stop LOL
When I mist them in the morning I open their cages and spray the water with my water bottle (then fill up their drippers for all day). Today as I was misting around mojo opens his mouth and stuck out his tongue a little bit like he was asking for the water... which he WAS! I put the spray bottle next to his lips and lightly squirted.. it was the best moment ever It was the cutest thing to see him stick out his tongue a little and ask for the water! I give him water everyday so it's not like he's dying of thirst or anything lol!

I'm also a tad worried that he asked for the water like that because it may mean something inside might be happening you know?!

I do want to mention about the oven fumes and all that... it is a BRAND new stove so there was absolutely no smoke from food burning or anything like that so my boys never inhaled actual smoke. I burnt tin foil to the bottom of my brand new stove (damnit!) and someone told me to try the self clean tool. That's why I did it. I literally just bought the stove less than a month ago. I know there still chemicals and things that come out but at least no smoke!