Outdoor Enclosures

[jajeanpierre]

I want to set up outdoor enclosures for my chameleons and could use some insight into the problems I will be facing.

I live in South Central Texas. In the summer, temps will occasionally go over 100F, often in the 90s for extended periods of time. People from the area consider it humid but I don't. I'm about 250 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, and we do get winds from the south during the summer. It is too cold to house them outside in the winter except for individual days when the temps get can get quite warm.

I am dealing primarily with a montane species from Cameroon, Trioceros quadricornis quadricornis. I plan to set up a misting system that will be constantly on from about 11:00 a.m. until sunset so they can deal with high temperatures.

Two of the animals are young adults or near adults and are recently imported wild caughts.

I would love suggestions on how to make this work.

 

[Montium]

At a minimum you will need a swamp cooler. More likely you will need A/C. I tried to keep montane's outside in Florida and it wasn't possible without a ton of equipment.

 

[jajeanpierre]

At a minimum you will need a swamp cooler. More likely you will need A/C. I tried to keep montane's outside in Florida and it wasn't possible without a ton of equipment.

The misting system would be similar to a swamp cooler, but cover a larger area. That's how the keep the dairy cattle cool enough at the largest dairy farm in the world in Riyadh, but Riyadh is very dry. Neither Florida nor the San Antonio, Texas, area are quite so dry. I know they use giant misters in Mecca and Medina to cool off the pilgrims. That is much more humid than Riyadh, just inland a bit from the Red Sea.

Could I do it spring and fall? Or would I just be stressing my chameleons to death?

Was it obvious it wasn't working for your chameleons before they got into trouble?

I'm not a very experienced keeper. Thanks for any insight.

 

[Carlton]

The misting system would be similar to a swamp cooler, but cover a larger area. That's how the keep the dairy cattle cool enough at the largest dairy farm in the world in Riyadh, but Riyadh is very dry. Neither Florida nor the San Antonio, Texas, area are quite so dry. I know they use giant misters in Mecca and Medina to cool off the pilgrims. That is much more humid than Riyadh, just inland a bit from the Red Sea.

Could I do it spring and fall? Or would I just be stressing my chameleons to death?

Was it obvious it wasn't working for your chameleons before they got into trouble?

I'm not a very experienced keeper. Thanks for any insight.

IMHO, if you weren't working with cool understory montanes you could probably do it. Quads...I would spend a lot of time worrying about them if I wasn't home to haul them indoors every time the temps spiked. Even in shade and with misting you could still end up with dangerous heat stress. If I understand it right, misters work to cool people off in dry hot climates because of the evaporation rate. If it isn't dry, the cooling effect may not be enough.

 

[jajeanpierre]

IMHO, if you weren't working with cool understory montanes you could probably do it. Quads...I would spend a lot of time worrying about them if I wasn't home to haul them indoors every time the temps spiked. Even in shade and with misting you could still end up with dangerous heat stress. If I understand it right, misters work to cool people off in dry hot climates because of the evaporation rate. If it isn't dry, the cooling effect may not be enough.

I've lived on a tiny Caribbean island and in Jeddah on the Red Sea. I don't find it humid here, except occasionally.

I've used misters with my chickens and it works pretty well. My property is mostly covered with liveoak, and the misters are in the shade.

I probably wouldn't have them out unless I were home.

Could I do it two times a year, spring and fall? My worry is the stress of moving them around. The wild caughts are just so different than the captive breds. They are just so much more wary.

 

[laurie]

Texas is hot, montanes do not like hot. I would think putting them out would end badly. You could do it for short time periods, but that might be way to much stress. My montanes never go over 80, never, I consider 75 to be a hot as mine ever see, and that is with humidity no lower that 50%. Usually my humidity is more like 70 to 80.

 

[Montium]

The misting system would be similar to a swamp cooler, but cover a larger area. That's how the keep the dairy cattle cool enough at the largest dairy farm in the world in Riyadh, but Riyadh is very dry. Neither Florida nor the San Antonio, Texas, area are quite so dry. I know they use giant misters in Mecca and Medina to cool off the pilgrims. That is much more humid than Riyadh, just inland a bit from the Red Sea.

Could I do it spring and fall? Or would I just be stressing my chameleons to death?

Was it obvious it wasn't working for your chameleons before they got into trouble?

I'm not a very experienced keeper. Thanks for any insight.

They showed heat stress very early on and never adapted to it. If you ran misters the whole day it wouldn't drop the temps enough to keep them happy. Even with misters you will only get 10-15 degrees in temp drop and if you are seeing 100 degrees they will be dead in no time. It's one of the reasons that while I love Quads and Monties, I no longer keep them. I will be installing a swap cooler that is ice fed for the summer months here. I also have a large indoor room that can be used for the hot Sept. Aug months here.

If you were keeping panthers or veiled's it would be easy between the misters and some plant respiration, shade etc.

If you are just looking to get them out in some sunlight that's another thing. Short periods in the early morning would probably work.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I had an outdoor enclosure when I was in San Antonio. Even with a lot of shade and misting my panthers would overheat! Texas is hot. I do not think montanes would be able to handle it. I could only put my panthers out morning and evening during the summer. My jacksons could only go out spring and fall because summer was just too hot for him. And summer is like 6 months long there. So you can have an outdoor cage....sometimes. But I wouldn't count on it being their permanent regular home.

 

[jajeanpierre]

They showed heat stress very early on and never adapted to it. If you ran misters the whole day it wouldn't drop the temps enough to keep them happy. Even with misters you will only get 10-15 degrees in temp drop and if you are seeing 100 degrees they will be dead in no time. It's one of the reasons that while I love Quads and Monties, I no longer keep them. I will be installing a swap cooler that is ice fed for the summer months here. I also have a large indoor room that can be used for the hot Sept. Aug months here.

If you were keeping panthers or veiled's it would be easy between the misters and some plant respiration, shade etc.

If you are just looking to get them out in some sunlight that's another thing. Short periods in the early morning would probably work.

Yes, the reason I want them out is to get unfiltered sunlight.

While I don't have much concern about stress moving the captive breds back and forth, I do for the wild caughts. They are young adults imported in December 2014.

I would appreciate input on how to get these wild caughts outside for sunlight without killing them from the stress of handling them getting them in and out. I can set it up so they go into the exact same outdoor cage that is in the exact same position with the usual caveats to reduce stress with the placement of the cages.

Maybe the cost (of stress) to the wild caughts is not worth the benefit of natural sunlight.

Stress is such a silent killer. On one hand I want them out in the natural sunshine, and on the other, I don't want to end up killing them. Being a new keeper, I lack judgement and perspective.

Thanks for everyone's insight.

 

[pigglett79]

San Antonio is not a friendly climate for cool species. Our spring and fall are extremely short, so for the most part it is pretty hot. I do have outdoor cages for my panthers and jackson, but there are very few days that they can actually stay out there all day even with the misting system. Most days my jackson can go in the early morning or late evening for a couple hours. He starts to get hot pretty quick even in the shade and with misters. The panthers tolerate it longer, but even they cant stay out all day without showing signs of heat stress.

I would say its only worth it if you can easily take them in and out each day, but if they stress with handling its going to be a problem. My jackson does not like being handled, but he can tolerate the quick trip outside daily and is happy once he gets outside. But I did have to learn how best to get him in and out without pissing him off too much. I can sometimes get him to walk on to my hand by tricking him w a vine and then he runs quickly off my hand in to the cage outside. Its getting him back in that can be a pain, I have to be a little more forceful to get him. He can have quite the serious grip on branches when he does not want to move, but I had to learn how to get him gently back in the house.

 

[laurie]

Janet I am sorry, but you are asking how to do something that lots of us have tried to tell you will kill quads. I have lots of friends who live in Texas talk to me about keeping quads. I have talked every single one of them out of it. I knew one person who kept quads on TX. They lasted less than 6 months. He is a excellent keeper, but it just does not work. His we're kept indoors. You are going to have a challenge just keeping them inside. If you are not willing to let people guide you, just kiss all those lovely chams goodbye now.

I know I sound mean, but what I am being is truthful, sorry.

 

[distortionz]

All I have to say is Just consider mister failure.. power goes out or the pump malfunctions and you have fried chameleons.. not a good idea at all in my opinion

 

[jajeanpierre]

Janet I am sorry, but you are asking how to do something that lots of us have tried to tell you will kill quads. I have lots of friends who live in Texas talk to me about keeping quads. I have talked every single one of them out of it. I knew one person who kept quads on TX. They lasted less than 6 months. He is a excellent keeper, but it just does not work. His we're kept indoors. You are going to have a challenge just keeping them inside. If you are not willing to let people guide you, just kiss all those lovely chams goodbye now.

I know I sound mean, but what I am being is truthful, sorry.

I'm really confused by your post.

You say that the only person you know of who has kept quads in Texas, kept them indoors and lost them all.

Why would I have a challenge keeping them alive in an air conditioned house?

 

[jajeanpierre]

All I have to say is Just consider mister failure.. power goes out or the pump malfunctions and you have fried chameleons.. not a good idea at all in my opinion

Let's forget about the middle of summer. What about spring and fall? My misting system is attached to a hose, not a pump.

How stressful would it be to take them in and out of the house? Maybe daily would be too much, but once a week? Twice a week?

 

[laurie]

I'm really confused by your post.

You say that the only person you know of who has kept quads in Texas, kept them indoors and lost them all.

Why would I have a challenge keeping them alive in an air conditioned house?

It is all about humidity. Air conditioners suck humidity like crazy. With people like you and I who have a air conditioner running a lot is the summer keeping humidity where it needs to be is a challenge. I have a climate controlled room built in my home, because I face challenges on my chams year round. That is why I can only keep montanes. My conditions are perfect for them but would not suit anything else. Does this make sense? Sometimes when I type stuff, it just doesn't translate well.

 

[jajeanpierre]

It is all about humidity. Air conditioners suck humidity like crazy. With people like you and I who have a air conditioner running a lot is the summer keeping humidity where it needs to be is a challenge. I have a climate controlled room built in my home, because I face challenges on my chams year round. That is why I can only keep montanes. My conditions are perfect for them but would not suit anything else. Does this make sense? Sometimes when I type stuff, it just doesn't translate well.

That makes more sense.

My part of Texas is fairly humid even though any pictures of The Alamo look like I'm in the middle of a desert. In the summer, winds blow up from the south (the Gulf of Mexico).

My indoor cages will be all DragonStrand breeder series, with an automated mister. I'm home, so can monitor everything.

In the summer, my house is kept quite warm by Texan standards (78F). I have thought about putting a window a/c unit in my office where the chameleons are to get it just a little colder, especially at night.

I really do appreciate everyone's insight into this species and montane species in general. Trust me Laurie, I am putting a lot of effort to get their set up right so they can thrive, not just survive.