Our youngest not really using his tongue

dolezalbob

New Member
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - We have a 5 month old male Ambanja. Gustave has been in our care for about a month, maybe two.
Handling - Not really at all. He is still doing the rotate around his branch routine and doesn't want much to do with my fiance or myself.
Feeding - He eats mostly medium sized crickets. We're dusting them with non-D3 calcium almost daily and other vitamins once a month. He also will eat meal worms occasionally. Crickets are gut loaded with a mixture of carrots, sweet potatoes, bug burger, and collared greens. He eats about 10 per day.
Supplements - The wife is sleeping and Ill get the brand of supplements tomorrow when I can get in the bedroom to read what they are if necessary.
Watering - We have a mister and a dripper. We also spray 2-4 times a day for 15-20 seconds which gets his plant pretty saturated.
Fecal Description - He hasn't been tested for parasites yet but his feces seem healthy. Standard brown turds and white urate.
History - Nothing we know of. Beyond not using his tongue effectively, he seems really healthy. He's doubled in size since we got him, shed a couple of times already, eats daily, is developing nice color, is consistent with how active he is, etc....

Cage Info:

Cage Type -Cage was build by myself and a picture is attached below. It's all screen, 20" deep 24" wide and 42" tall.
Lighting - We have automatic lighting that turns on at about 645 am and turns off at about 745 pm. 75W Exoterra heat lamp and an 18" UV lamp approximately 2" above the top of his enclosure.
Temperature - His temps are about 90 degF at his basking spots and 70 degF at the bottom of his enclosure. The low overnight temp never drops below 65 degF. Temps are measured with a standard gauge.
Humidity - His humidity varies. We try to keep it as high as possible but in the northeast USA it ranges from 85% on a good day to 30% on a bad day when I get home. The spray gets it back up but when we're at work it will drop. We use the same standard temp/humidity gauge; however, since we went 100% real plants the humidity has improved.
Plants - All of our chams have scheffleras in their enclosures.
Placement - His enclosure is in the living room so there's a fair amount of traffic; also, there's a heat vent in the floor close to his cage but we keep it covered to limit the air flow. His enclosure is elevated so the top is as close as it can get to the ceiling considering room for his lights.
Location - Willow Grove, PA (Philadelphia suburbs)

Current Problem:

Gustave is of the latest, and possibly last, of the Grimbold line and seems healthy. Our concern is how he uses his tongue. He's eaten since the day we got him and cup feeds without any issues. He has slowly been getting more comfortable with us and now will let us watch him eat. Now that we can watch him, I can see he doesn't project his tongue much at all to catch his food. When he gets food out of his cup, he shoots it maybe an inch and when his food is elsewhere, he's not very accurate and doesn't seem to shoot it much further, if any and needs to really sneak up on his prey. We have two other panthers and have been lucky that they are both healthy as a spigot. So my question is, should we be concerned and/or what kind of advice does the chameleon community have?

*The picture of Gustave is about 3 weeks old and he's developed some really nice blue and red which I'll upload soon

Many thanks and Merry Christmas!!

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I think it's an eye issue. The inside of his lid looks a little droopy, but a better picture of his eye would be nice. My guy is having eye issues right now that started out looking like that, and his aim deteriorated like you describe. Unfortunately I still don't know what the problem is so I can't really help you beyond that. I would post a closeup of his eye.
 
we use supplements as recommended by the care sheet on the forum, dusted on gutloaded crickets. despite his aim/tongue issue, he actually eats very well.
when we first got him shipped, he had an eye issue right out of the box, but we had thought it had resolved. Since he wasn't shooting his tongue out well, I've also been suspecting that we were wrong about that :( I'll see if the vet is open today or tomorrow to see him.
 
tongue issue

Hello There,

How is your cham? And his tongue?
I have an about 3 month old veiled cham and doesn't want to use her/his tongue either...I know I overdosed her/him with multi and D3,so about 10 days ago I use only calcium. But it seems to be getting worse...And I hate to watch her/him how much tries to catch the crickets and just can't,I can see the bone,but the tongue doesn't stick out...And then suddenly the tongue works properly again. So at the end of the day there are no crickets in the terrarium.
 
Our reptile vet isn't in the office til Tuesday so we are taking him then. He actually does well with eating and has shed a few times since we've had him. We cup fed him ever since we got him because we were concerned that he wouldn't be able to find his small crickets in his big cage. He's moved on to slightly larger crickets and sort of sneaks up behind them and shoots his tongue a short distance or just bites them.
 
Well, Gustave went to the vet today. He was thoroughly miserable and tried to bite the vet the whole time. Luckily we have a great vet who had a sense of humor about the whole thing.
The vet looked at Gustave thoroughly and said there's nothing in his eyes and no corneal abrasions. Since Gustave was kind enough to gape at us the whole time, the vet got a great look at his mouth and there aren't any abscesses or any visible issues.

He thinks Gustave has early MBD, even though he says our care of him has been pretty good. We did make a couple of mistakes that I want to share so other people can learn from them.
1) Our UVB light came pre-assembled with clear plastic over the bulb; I'd hoped the manufacturers weren't stupid enough to put a plastic on that would filter out the UVB, but nope - probably not. So when I got home, the plastic got ripped off.
2) We'd been gutloading crickets with a variety of vegetables, but the vet said to gutload with Fluker's or Ziegler's cricket diet because that will give him more calcium. (senior members, any thoughts on this??)

Gustave got a vitamin A/D injection. We're going to keep track of him over the next few weeks and see if his tongue improves with our changes.

I was thinking about getting an extra UVB light to give Gustave an extra boost, and was considering a 10.0 instead of the normal 5.0 - does this seem like a good idea?

We really want Gustave to improve. Any advice from senior members or from anyone who has been in our position would be much appreciated.
 
What veggies are you using? A good homemade gutload should be WAYYY better then any Flukers crap. Could you post a closeup of his eye?
 
we've used carrots, sweet potatoes, collard greens, potato, and Bug Burger (we always use Bug burger and change out which vegetable we put in).

I'll see if I have a good picture of his eye. He is grumpy and generally does not allow good pictures. The vet did look at both eyes closely with his ophthalmology tools while wearing magnifying glasses and said there wasn't anything stuck in them, but mentioned that eye swelling can be a consequence of early MBD
 
gustave closeup.jpg

This picture is the best I have and the best I'm gonna get. Gustave is generally a well-hydrated chameleon with white urates - this picture was taken today after my fiance and I had been away since Friday. We asked someone to come water the chameleons for us, but I don't think she came. So if he looks dehydrated, it's a deviation from his norm due to our cham-sitter not showing up
 
How far is the uvb bulb from where he bask's. This distance should be no more than 10". 6-8" is best.

Assuming here so take it for what it is.
Supplements are crucial and the complete truth is you dont know how well the kammers took care of the kid. They clearly know what they are doing and im not saying they are bad BUT If for three months minimal care was given or even unknowingly supplements expire, uvb not performing and once you receive the animal and also provide insufficient needs. This ends up an animal with a deficiency. Again im not stating you are the kammers are indeed at fault as there was no blood work done to judge judy this.

Generally tongue issues come from one or more of these issues.
1. Insufficient nutrients whether via lights or supplements.
The next two can "Sometimes" but not always be visible by opening the mouth. Upon opening the mouth chameleons generally pull the tongue back only exposing a minimal section of tongue.
2. Injury.
3. Infection. <---This doesnt have to be just in the mouth or tongue.
 
The UVB is approximately 4-8" from his typical basking spots.

The vet said to try the changes stated above, monitor him for 3-4 weeks, and if he gets worse or doesn't improve that we need to put him under anesthesia for bloodwork, x-rays, and to get a better look at his tongue. I'm hoping it doesn't come to this!

Any thoughts about ways to increase the calcium in our gutload and the extra uvb light?
 
By the way, checking supplements for an expiration date was a great idea that I never would have thought of. Ours are all good through 2015!
 
I am having a similar problem, just posted a threat about it. my little 5 1/2 month old ambilobe has been having a tongue issue for almost 3 weeks now. 3 weeks ago, while feeding him, i noticed his nice, long tongue and that he was eating well. A few hours later, i go to mist them, and I see this little guy chasing a cricket, trying to eat it but to no avail. thats when the issue started. it was sudden as that. so its not from improper supplementing (plus I dust with repashys calcium and regular calcium, herpitive, etc and I gutload with cricket crack, bug burger and fresh veggies).

His tongue shoot out 1-3 inches at most, but now only about 1-2. He has a crazy apetite though and has learned to cupfeed (for the most part).

I took him to the vet and she said it could be a deep infection in his mouth (least likely) a strain or injury (most likely) or an abyss or something deep in his mouth and she even thinks something like a cricket leg or SOMETHING could be stuck in his throat. He has live plants in his cage and I did notice him biting a branch one day. He might of swallowed a twig or something from the pot but I really hope thats not the case. Hes prescribed with metacam and still ungergoing treatment but no improvements yet. The vet told me that if it does not get better, then I would have to put him to temporary sleep and take a look at his full tongue... Im scared about this alot.
 
i hope neither one of our babies has to go under anesthesia! We are both so lucky that our chameleons eat well anyway. Today Gustave hasn't eaten, but I'm guessing that's because he was so stressed at the vet's yesterday.

I hope your little guy gets better!!
 
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