Our Baby Jacksons are dying

[electrichi01]

Hello

On August 1, we where blessed with 16 baby jacksons. We had 21 give birth, but 5 where DOA.

So, as the first week had gone by, things started off great. Now it is very sad.

It seems we are losing 1 or 2 every day over the last week or so and now down to 7 today.

They get disoriented, walk like they are drunk and fall over and perish. They turn a white color and start to close their eyes.....

We have a very clean cage with some branches they can walk on and pothos plants in them. We did have hibiscus, but took it out as a precaution, as it appears they are nibbling on the leaves.

We water them often with the spray bottle, give them plenty of pinhead crickets and use the healthy habitat to clean the plants and give them a good hosing down in the yard.

It has been hot here (Hawaii) in our place- low 80's and we give them a fan and ac when it gets above this, but are really concerned for the last few.

They seem to want to grab onto the top of the screen cage and hand either right side up or upside down and perish....??

We appreciate any feedback.

Aloha

 

[Carlton]

We'll need a lot more information before we can even try to help. Read the sticky about how to ask for help and answer the questions about caging, temps, humidity, nutrition, etc.

Baby jax can be tricky to feed and water. Easy to drown them and easy to overheat them.

 

[Garrett]

Sounds like they might be ingesting a toxin, are you washing the pothos to remove pesticides? Could the healthy habitat be causing a problem?? I wouldn't trust any type of spray disinfectant with babies, even if the manufacturer says it's safe. Are the pinhead crickets eating anything that could be toxic?
That would be my guess, or they could be overheating.. low 80's for baby jacksons may be a bit high, I'd shoot for mid 70's

 

[electrichi01]

The crickets are from the pet store, so this could be a source. The spray was also a suggestion from the pet store as well as some other forums out there that I have read about.
The temp is a challenge in the summer here. We live in a dryer area and in Hawaii these chams mostly live in the wet mountain areas. Our adults are fine and they are more resilient.
We have a fan on them, so we wondered if they are drying out. We spray often and they lick the leaves or the mesh for water droplets.
...still looking for clues....

Thanks

 

[Redeye]

in my very short experiance with baby jacksons, they are CONSTANTLY in need of water, I would mist my little guy 7-10 times a day, and he would drink every time. I resorted to 4-6 times a day and a constant dripper, he loved the access to the drips


Like wise the ones at work were not getting the same amount of water and perished in the manner you mention

 

[Sang]

OK, first off..

if you have never had neonates from a live bearing species, especially jacksons they are extremly difficult to keep alive, i have heard that there is typically a 50/50 rate on their survival. Not to mention if your new to this then you might not be getting everything right.

you should be using fruit flys, and tiny pin head crickets for week olds.


If you are loosing them after only a few days it may mean they were not taht strong to begin with and really wouldn't of made it anyways.


Now granted, if you are doing things right you still have to deal with a high lethality rate, which in turn can be tough. Stick with it and do as much research as you can on raising newborn jacksons.

 

[xanthoman]

generally speaking i am against aquariums as housing for most chams, however i feel a 10 gal aquarium makes the best nursery for the first 8 weeks of xanth neonates life, i have posted a fairly complete care guide on another forum, in response to this subject, my advice , would be (if the moderators dont remove it) to go to the repticzone chameleon forums and read my response to the post "first time with baby jacksons,looking for advice" after you have done that, you are welcome to come back and post again or if you prefer you can email or pm directly with any specific questions

 

[electrichi01]

Thanks

Good tips for all aspects of caring for them. We thought it might be the heat, drowning them with the mister, eating a feces off of a leaf, bad crickets from the pet store, cham fighting etc. They all race thru your mind......

We thought about the 10 gallon glass tank, but the humidity here is always high, so we felt it was better to give them air.

Reading the other posts from the other forum has a bunch of irony....they are all born within days of each other in different states...seems like nature and dinosaurs have alot in common. In Hawaii, the Jacksons are all up against the mountains (generalization) and seem to thrive under cooler temps and more rainy conditions.

BTW: do these guys ever eat ants? Our adults don't (or not that I have witnessed).

Aloha

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Usually if something eats ants, it only eats ants - and if they don't eat ants exclusively, then the creature most likely never would.

I would also stay away from that Healthy Habitat stuff.
Keeping temps down is a must, in the low 70s is ideal with just a small area for basking at 75-77.
Basking spots should increase as age increases - up a few degrees every 4-6 months.

Also you might want to find some tiny insects in the leaf litter around your home,
as crickets are one of the most unhygienic foods you can give your pets,
I don't even understand how they are so prevalent in the reptile keeping hobby.

As mentioned, fruit flies are marvelous for the first few weeks.

Since the humidity in Hawaii is probably pretty astronomical, you might want
to get a screen enclosure instead. You can build your own:

http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=61

Also use an absorbent substrate, either paper towel or soil covered in leaf litter.
This will help prevent drowning. And just spray them so there are tiny droplets
around, not big dripping droplets. It's like dumping buckets of water over your
head.

 

[xanthoman]

that is why it is best to leave the top off if you can, i will try to post a pic of my setup as all of my neomnates are going into a sreen cage tommorrow,neonates can go for 3 days without food the best first food is hydei ff, followed by true pinheads , temps and humidity are important, 80* max they need lots of climbing material, as they have not yet learned that they can get that feeder out of their reach by walking over to it , you will need at least 3 strongly producing hydei ff cultures or TRUE pinheads, ther should be a pic of ff concentration in my public cf album , dont worry about heat they can easily survive to about 65*, you need to keep a constant eye on them and the cage needs to be kept spotlessly clean as they eat everything that sticks to their tongue and impaction is probably the biggest worry (see terrycloth liner and paper towel substrate coverage) use bamboo skewers to handle them. a small fan like a computer fan from a distance would probably be good (on very low setting)try to keep temp around 75-80 max and get night drop if you can, 70-75% is good humidity but dont keep it constant , the fan will help dry things out ,down to about 50% and mistings should bring it back up to about 75-80% max they need lots of climbing material to have access to their food and avoid the glass confusion thing , they need fairly constant watching you cant just set them up and let them be , i strongly suspect that they are not getting enough food , aphids would be the best feeders of all if you can get them in large enough quantities, its best if they dont spend extended periods of time hanging upside down, be carefull when you mist not to get them soaking wet , you can adjust to a solid stream and squirt every where they arent and also water your plants that way , dont get an excess of water in the tank if they were born on aug first they are probably on to larger feeders by now but good to keep ff or aphids available for the smaller ones. you can coat the upper inside perimeter with a 1" stripe of olive oil to keep the ffs from getting out , you can also mist the outside of the cage or even secure a wet terry cloth around the outside to keep cage temps down do not place the tank in sunlight without constant monitoring of temps (they cook easily)

 

[xanthoman]

neonate setup

View attachment 15004 some krappy pics of my neonate setup, the light is just above view, the temp and humidty monitoring equip is removed and only placed when needed, so they cant use the wires as a means of escape

 

[xanthoman]

more crappy pics

View attachment 15010

View attachment 15011 at 7 weeks

 

[xanthoman]

top view

top view View attachment 15013 sorry , didnt mean to hijack the thread with all my postings but i had some problems with my attachmentsp/edit ps they should have at least some wet foliage in the cage at all times, hanging damp towels on 2 sides of the cage will lower cage temps by several degrees/edit/ if you cant buy ffs you can get wild ones going in just a few days (i am assuming there are wild ffs in hawaii) also , if you can find a clean source , they especially like any appropriately sized delicate green bugs (like aphids)

 

[electrichi01]

Thanks for the feedback again. I wish we could get ff's here, but they are off limits and there is not a company that can ship em here without a permit.
We did buy the screen cages from big apple pet supply for the adults and have screen cages for the kids....
I like the link to the homebrewed cage! The challenge with here is the cage will rust rather quickly. The nylon is the best for our salt environment.

Thanks again for the pics and the support.

My gut is telling me they are just too hot....even today as I was watching the mom, she was hanging from a vine like a primate, which seems like a lack of water or too much heat. She has a little sunken eyes today, so she is probably not drinking enough h2o....the kids eye look fine....

Nature....hard to understand and impossible to control