Hey Guys, this is your friendly neighborhood Super Newbie, TLC. Actually, TLC is a hot couple that stands for Tammy Loves Che'. This is Che' writing now. I am a snake guy; and therefore, by association, a reptile lover. My enthusiasm has infected Tammy who now has fallen in love with Panther Chameleons. We've been studying our butts off learning about them. (I feel like the guy in the Geico commercial watching the street performer juggling chainsaws..."Give me one. I got this.") Next weekend, we are setting up and tweaking our cage. After we feel comfortable it is capable of supporting Furcifer life, we will order a male Ambilobe. (How do you pronounce that, lol, "Am-bee-lo-bee?" Tammy says "am-bee-lo-bay.") But enough about us, let me ask my questions. How does one conveniently and comfortably keep/raise crickets in the home? My first thought was run to the pet shop every day for a few, but that doesn't seem too convenient. I imagine crickets are noisy and that they are noisy at night when I am trying to catch my Zs. (At least the ones that ever found their way inside my home are). Is that correct thinking? Are they annoying to raise in the home? (We will order roaches and other bugs online to feed, as well). Also, are chameleons prone to foot arthritis? I know that birds need varying perch sizes to prevent arthritis. I haven't found anything saying what the preferred or necessary perch size should be for chams. And, I understand that it is recommended to start younger chameleons in smaller cages to facilitate finding/hunting food. The Panther we are going to buy will be 4-5 months old. Would it be bad mojo to go ahead and set him up in his final adult cage (2x2x4) Zoo Med Reptibreeze Open Air Screen Cage? Especially, since we plan to cup feed anyway.
Novice Questions
- Thread starter TLC
- Start date
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi Che and welcome to the forums and future chameleon ownership. As far as the crickets, only the adult crickets make the noise, so you might be good on that for awhile until you start feeding the biggest ones. I keep mine in a 30 gallon plastic tote and cut the lid out and screen that and also cut two sides out and glue screen for cross ventilation towards the bottom. I am able to have the luxury of keeping mine in a patio outside so do not have to deal with the noise. I say Ambilobee not bay and I believe that is correct but not sure. I am not sure if Chameleons are "prone" to arthritis, but we do have some members whose senior chameleons have got it. It is like people though, and they don't get it in their earlier years. A variety of different size perches is best. Not all should be the same size. They have long nails, so can pretty much grip anything. And lastly, you can put him in the bigger cage to start at that age and he should be fine!
Psychobunny
Avid Member
Hi there, and welcome to the forum, and the chameleon (we just call them 'chams' for short) addiction.
A 4 month old panther does not need a cage that large, and he may have trouble finding his food in it.
I would do the 18 x 18 x 36'' size Reptibreeze.
You want to have everything set up BEFORE you have your cham.
There are several care sheets on this forum you should read.
Go by what you read on this forum, NOT the advise of pet store or friends, or outdated "chameleon care" books.
Look down at the bottom left corner of the webpage, there is a box called "chameleon care" and has a bunch of basic husbandry topics.
Learn the basics of setting up your cage first; lighting, basking temps, drippers and misting, etc.
A 4 month old panther does not need a cage that large, and he may have trouble finding his food in it.
I would do the 18 x 18 x 36'' size Reptibreeze.
You want to have everything set up BEFORE you have your cham.
There are several care sheets on this forum you should read.
Go by what you read on this forum, NOT the advise of pet store or friends, or outdated "chameleon care" books.
Look down at the bottom left corner of the webpage, there is a box called "chameleon care" and has a bunch of basic husbandry topics.
Learn the basics of setting up your cage first; lighting, basking temps, drippers and misting, etc.
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think if you cupfeed it will be ok and he said he was going to. I have also found a lot of the crickets congregate towards the lights and therefore are available to eat. Yes, some will go to the bottom and in plants to hide.If you feed silks, or horns, they stay right on the branches. I think a 4-5 month old is ok in that size, but that is just my opinion. Not saying it is right or wrong and he can decide for him self.
Psychobunny
Avid Member
I really just meant they dont need a cage that big, but I guess if you have the space, it's fine.
Yeah, I also noticed the cricks like to gather at the top, and stay nice and warm under the lights
I even put food in there for them, but lots of the cricks hit the floor, where they tend to drown in the slightest amount of water!! (they really are pretty stupid!).
I drill drainage holes in the plastic floor they give you with the Reptibreeze cages, some ppl just replace it with screen or something so the water can drain.
It's just that I have never had the need for a cage that big for a panther, since all mine have been rather small.
I think, and this is just my opinion, a new cham benefits from free range hunting for its food a portion of the time. I believe it helps them get acclimated to their new home, and makes them feel more comfortable in it.
I like to offer the first food item by hand, so they can start getting used to me, then after (or if) they take the feeders from my hand, I let the rest loose for them to hunt.
I do cup feed dubias though, because they like to hide, and can stay hidden for days, even weeks!!
I think cup feeding alone makes them lazy, but that idea was put into my head by Ed Kammer, who has his own methods of doing things
New owners do get confused reading conflicting info here, so what ever works for your cham in your location
Yeah, I also noticed the cricks like to gather at the top, and stay nice and warm under the lights
I even put food in there for them, but lots of the cricks hit the floor, where they tend to drown in the slightest amount of water!! (they really are pretty stupid!
).I drill drainage holes in the plastic floor they give you with the Reptibreeze cages, some ppl just replace it with screen or something so the water can drain.
It's just that I have never had the need for a cage that big for a panther, since all mine have been rather small.
I think, and this is just my opinion, a new cham benefits from free range hunting for its food a portion of the time. I believe it helps them get acclimated to their new home, and makes them feel more comfortable in it.
I like to offer the first food item by hand, so they can start getting used to me, then after (or if) they take the feeders from my hand, I let the rest loose for them to hunt.
I do cup feed dubias though, because they like to hide, and can stay hidden for days, even weeks!!
I think cup feeding alone makes them lazy
, but that idea was put into my head by Ed Kammer, who has his own methods of doing things New owners do get confused reading conflicting info here, so what ever works for your cham in your location
Psychobunny
Avid Member
No problem
Keeping a cham can cost a bit of $$, keep in mind the expenses to help you decide.
I would check you area in advance to find out if there are any vets who know about chams (most don't!!) just in case.
Cricks are pretty easy to keep. I use a large Tupperware storage bin, with several pieces of egg carton and a reptile 'under tank' heating mat regulated with a simple in line lamp dimmer, adjust temp with a laser thermometer.
They seem happy at about 80F.
You may not even need a heating mat if you can keep them in a warm spot.
I have a bin in my dinning room, and in the basement, where it's pretty cool in the winter.
They are noisy! so I have to have them away from my bedroom, or they will keep me up all night!
Don't forget, they need to be gut-loaded before feeding to your cham.
I use Repashy Bug Burger, throw in some greens, piece of orange, squash, whatever is handy. But the Bug Burger has everything in it
Wonderful invention
Keeping a cham can cost a bit of $$, keep in mind the expenses to help you decide.
I would check you area in advance to find out if there are any vets who know about chams (most don't!!) just in case.
Cricks are pretty easy to keep. I use a large Tupperware storage bin, with several pieces of egg carton and a reptile 'under tank' heating mat regulated with a simple in line lamp dimmer, adjust temp with a laser thermometer.
They seem happy at about 80F.
You may not even need a heating mat if you can keep them in a warm spot.
I have a bin in my dinning room, and in the basement, where it's pretty cool in the winter.
They are noisy! so I have to have them away from my bedroom, or they will keep me up all night!
Don't forget, they need to be gut-loaded before feeding to your cham.
I use Repashy Bug Burger, throw in some greens, piece of orange, squash, whatever is handy. But the Bug Burger has everything in it
Wonderful invention
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
You are welcome Che. You can always try your chameleon in that size cage and see how it works. Also, freeranging the feeders or cup feeding is your preference. See how your chameleon does best with trying both methods. Some members have the bigger cages and section them off. Like making the cage 1/2 its size by raising the floor. I don't remember how they did it, but I have seen it on here.
KarmenCham
Member
Vivexotic Viva and Ax model vivs have a small section where you can Temporarily add a divider Bit no idea on mesh vivs
Thanks for the advice and heads up. Like I said, I am a snake guy. For the snakes I like, the initial investment for a cham is comparably very attractive. Every care sheet I read recommends an enclosure for an adult male Panther of 24x24x48, but, I am all about saving money. If you believe our Panther will happily thrive in an 18x18x36, I would be happy to go with one of them. And since I keep snakes, I have a quality reptile vet locally that does a wonderful job with my serpents. I am lucky to have her. Also, I have an empty all glass snake enclosure with screen top and pre-installed vents on the sides and back that should work well as a cricket or dubia container. I have plenty of UTHs if necessary, as well. We are planning to feed Vitabug cricks, Vitabug worms and Calciworms. Will it still be necessary to dust if we go those brands?
Ninkylou
New Member
Most people will say that a male panther will do best in the larger enclosure as they do tend to be larger, and they like to roam around. I moved my youngest to a 24 x 24 x 48 at about 4.5 months and have had not problems with him at all. I do a mix of cup, Sunny D type feeder and free range hunting. He does just fine. DIY, one of our sponsors, has the largest cage for $95 shipped, you can't beat that. The very slight increase in price for a good big more space. I love my DIY enclosures as well.
Welcome to the forums. I also have a 2 yr old female normal Ball Python, but find the Chams much more entertaining and engaging. They are such a great addition to a household.
Welcome to the forums. I also have a 2 yr old female normal Ball Python, but find the Chams much more entertaining and engaging. They are such a great addition to a household.
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
Che, you said you were all about saving money...well, if you buy the smaller cage you will be upgrading in no time to the bigger one so in the long run you will have to buy two cages! No money saved there!!! As far as the crickets, they need to be dusted with calcium as do all your feeders. What is Vitabug? As the caresheets state most of us dust with calcium no d3 every or most feedings, calcium without d3 and multivitamin twice monthly.
xraygirl
Established Member
Haha yes! Just for giggles I flipped through one of those books at petsmart, and landed in the gut loading section and the book recommended dry dog or cat food! Outdated is right!!
OK sticking with the original plan to set up the 24x24x48 cage. I'll check out DIY cages. Vitabug and Calciworm are new products that supposedly reduces the complexity of dusting and gut-loading. These feeders have been raised on a premium diet to match mimic the nutrient profile of wild insects. Google Timberline Fisheries for more information on them. Thanks everyone that offered advice, suggestions, and opinions.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
welcome to the forum
Im sure the others have given you good info.
I just wanted to add that providing a range of branch sizes will ensure good foot exercise. I remember reading a long time ago that their feet do need the varying widths, like birds do. Don't know if its true, but it certainly isn't hard to provide a few different types of branches just in case.
Im sure the others have given you good info.
I just wanted to add that providing a range of branch sizes will ensure good foot exercise. I remember reading a long time ago that their feet do need the varying widths, like birds do. Don't know if its true, but it certainly isn't hard to provide a few different types of branches just in case.
