nothing to see here ;)

[Dominik H.]

hi. nothing to see here. just posted something and the same thing as last time happened.
I really like this forum but i just experienced that it wont help me here to post any things and thats why i am gonna move to being a silent spectator on this forum.
I think its not possible to delete this post so i will keep it like that.
If anybody knows that it can be deleted, please tell me.

Have a wonderful day

 

[Beman]

So I just looked at past threads of yours. Did you correct the items mentioned in this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/some-informations-about-my-little-mate-rango.172352/
Particularly those relating to UVB lighting and supplementation?
Chameleons do not sleep on the ground. They are arboreal animals. There is a reason why sleeping on the ground is directly related to health issues.

 

[janjan20]

Hi and welcome back! Thanks for the update on Rango. I also had a Cham named Rango lol. What you are describing is highly unusual and I’m sure the most experienced chameleon keepers would prob agree.

 

[Syreptyon]

Sleeping on the ground would mean death in the wild. This is not a cute, quirky personality trait unique to your chameleon. This is a red flag that something is wrong.

 

[Dominik H.]

well... cant delete answers aswell

 

[Syreptyon]

Hey Beman

Yes since my last post I changed some things and of course I changed the points that the other keepers suggested me to change immediately.
I dust less and his cage light is waaay more up in his cage than it was before. (It was a huge operation and took so much time to change but it worked perfectly)
I saw you answering on a topic related post i read here on this forum so I kind of expected you to answer to mine.
I am absolutely aware that it is very special and kind of "not natural" for arboreal animals to sleep on the ground, thats why I was worried in the first place about him doing that.
But the fact that he just started it since he has the cover of the plants and otherwise looks and acts completely healthy does relax me.
I just cant see anything wrong with him.
I already contacted my vet and chameleon breeder about it and we will see what he says about it.

I would just like to point out how dangerous the thought process of "I just can't see anything wrong with him" is.

That's the whole thing. You can't see illness. Bacteria and other microbes are invisible to the human eye. You have no way of seeing what might be going on in his blood, lungs, bones, etc. Chameleons will do anything to hide that they're sick. Oftentimes, when symptoms finally manifest visibly, it is already too late.

 

[Beman]

Hey Beman

Yes since my last post I changed some things and of course I changed the points that the other keepers suggested me to change immediately.
I dust less and his cage light is waaay more up in his cage than it was before. (It was a huge operation and took so much time to change but it worked perfectly)
I saw you answering on a topic related post i read here on this forum so I kind of expected you to answer to mine.
I am absolutely aware that it is very special and kind of "not natural" for arboreal animals to sleep on the ground, thats why I was worried in the first place about him doing that.
But the fact that he just started it since he has the cover of the plants and otherwise looks and acts completely healthy does relax me.
I just cant see anything wrong with him.
I already contacted my vet and chameleon breeder about it and we will see what he says about it.

Did you add a linear T5 UVB light to the top and mount the heat lamp on top of the cage? You are saying his light so I am wanting to clarify if you added a t5 fixture. When you say you do not dust as much... How often and with what? Prior you were dusting with D3 every other day which can lead to D3 toxicity.
Some additional pics of his environment would be helpful as well.

I get that your post is not really asking for help but more making a statement for others that this is a "normal" behavior. This is concerning to me however that a newbie with a sick cham may think that their chameleon is ok by reading your post when in fact it is a tell tell sign that there is an issue.

The problem is that chams do not outwardly show their health issues they hide them. So we look for indicators telling us that something is not right. By the time they get to the point of eyes sunken in and no grip they are unable to hide their illness. At that point the cham is on deaths door.

 

[Beman]

hi. nothing to see here. just posted something and the same thing as last time happened.
I really like this forum but i just experienced that it wont help me here to post any things and thats why i am gonna move to being a silent spectator on this forum.
I think its not possible to delete this post so i will keep it like that.
If anybody knows that it can be deleted, please tell me.

Have a wonderful day

I think it is a shame that you are reacting this way. In no way were you attacked or treated rudely. I read through your last thread and again you are acting in the same manner.

This is a searchable forum. Those of us who understand that include information for any other person that may search this at a later time to ensure they have the right information. So that Chameleons do not die and owners do not feel the guilt of that death.

You make a post and then get people responding trying to ensure that there is nothing you are overlooking and then you decide you do not need the help. It is a shame that you are not willing to put your chameleons health over your pride in what you do or do not know.

While the sleeping on the ground may very well be from the addition of new plants and him not feeling comfortable yet it can also mean that there is something else going on.

I asked two very important questions about your UVB lighting and supplementation. BOTH of which were incorrect in your last post. To ensure that those were corrected because both of those things can cause your chameleon to start displaying unusual behavior such as sleeping on the ground. You chose to not give information on my questions and not post additional pictures. So either you did not make the changes and do not want to be told you are incorrect in the husbandry you are providing or you think you know better then the experienced keepers within this forum.

BUT I will again say sleeping on the ground is NOT normal and rather then assuming it is because one thinks they are doing everything correctly it is wise to look at the whole husbandry picture to ensure your chams health.

Good luck to you and your cham.

 

[Ares05]

My 2 cents:

Honestly.. people are just trying to help. Your chameleon will eventually suffer dearly if you cant understand this. I find it odd that you are so caught up in the 'passive-aggressive' tones of the feedback you receive, when any day now your chameleon could die from serious thermal burns, or eventually have irreversible damage, because *cough* you didn't really listen to any suggestions about lighting, supplements, ect. Husbandry in general.

Dont take it personally. This forum is to share knowledge, and provide support. The goal is to help chameleons in need and help their owners correct mistakes. You cant show up here and expect that everything is all correct and perfect.

Coming here and asking for advice, acknowledging the advice, then not even correcting anything and expecting it to be all fine and dandy is just.. dumb. Thats like going to the doctor, telling them your symptoms, getting diagnosed, then you ignore it and expect to be cured within the week. Not how it works.

I urge you to listen to what others have said, or you just wasted their time on a lost cause.

 

[salty dog]

The I am right, everybody else is wrong, I know my chameleon better than you...... very sad for the cham

 

[Tihshho]

I'm going to throw this out there, but the people here who have extreme passion to these reptiles are blunt and to the point when it comes to changes that need to be made. I can see where people can get the wrong idea about it, but keep in mind there are between 5-10+ people who post up the same problems here on the forum that are also new users. I have to say that I'm a person who hates repeating myself, so I tend to keep my mouth shut rather than get involved in repetitive posts, but I know there are plenty of users here more patient than myself who take the task of trying to share education of the husbandry of this species.

As a recommendation to all, as this isn't the first time in a few months a post has turned this route, I would say if you lack the patience/bedside manner to support threads like this I would just take a breath and step back and let the more patient folk take care of starting the conversation. With that in mind, I'd also recommend that a sticky be posted about warning new users about a few things:

1) That this is a passionate forum and BS that leads to the poor husbandry will be called out, and sometimes the people who post are blunt about it to be clear to the point and that it is not a personal attack

2) People who are new need to put their emotions aside about their initial investment into their pets and the information that they may have received about husbandry (especially if their Cham was purchased from a pet store and not a breeder) as 90% of pet stores are like McDonald's. If the store has a need for an employee they will tend to hire someone who is willing to take the job and shows signs that they are customer service oriented/sales oriented and may not have experience with what they are selling, just knowing what they need to know to make a sale. When it comes to this forum a lot of us have made mistakes, and I say mistakes and not solely a mistake. We are trying to educate new owners, even if it's a painful process for them to learn.

3) Chameleon's like it or not are like a culling course for Colleges. They separate those who are willing to invest time and money to keep their pets happy no matter the cost. We may have got through the Herp101 course where you previously kept a Gecko species that needed little space requirements or lighting requirements or you may have come from the snake world where a plastic bin, heat pad, thermostat and a water dish were enough to get you by. This isn't the case with Cham's and you need to forget everything you think you know from other species and look at Cham's as their own entity. These species require specific lighting, housing, watering and nutritional needs and they do not transfer solely from any other lizard species. To keep Cham's safely and happily you will need to invest money and time into their enclosures and their overall husbandry, no if and's or buts.

I hate to be blunt about it myself, but if you can't get by my third point, then Cham's sadly are just not the species of pet lizard for you.

 

[Ramrod]

You can lead a horse to water.........

 

[Beman]

They edited their post prior to anyone saying anything negative. They just did not want to answer questions or be questioned. It is a shame as I was trying to understand their husbandry changes and see if I could find an alternative reason for the chams behavior in case it was a situation where health issues were the cause.

This is a dead end thread. Wasting anymore of our time on it is pointless.

 

[Syreptyon]

They edited their post prior to anyone saying anything negative. They just did not want to answer questions or be questioned. It is a shame as I was trying to understand their husbandry changes and see if I could find an alternative reason for the chams behavior in case it was a situation where health issues were the cause.

This is a dead end thread. Wasting anymore of our time on it is pointless.

Agreed. And while I do agree that tone and bluntness are sometimes a problem on the forum, I do not think this was one of those cases. This was a totally tame conversation. All that was stated was matter-of-fact, without any ridicule or judgment. Just follow-up and facts.

 

[Dominik H.]

So I just looked at past threads of yours. Did you correct the items mentioned in this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/some-informations-about-my-little-mate-rango.172352/
Particularly those relating to UVB lighting and supplementation?
Chameleons do not sleep on the ground. They are arboreal animals. There is a reason why sleeping on the ground is directly related to health issues.

Hi and welcome back! Thanks for the update on Rango. I also had a Cham named Rango lol. What you are describing is highly unusual and I’m sure the most experienced chameleon keepers would prob agree.

Sleeping on the ground would mean death in the wild. This is not a cute, quirky personality trait unique to your chameleon. This is a red flag that something is wrong.

I would just like to point out how dangerous the thought process of "I just can't see anything wrong with him" is.

Did you add a linear T5 UVB light to the top and mount the heat lamp on top of the cage? You are saying his light so I am wanting to clarify if you added a t5 fixture. When you say you do not dust as much... How often and with what? Prior you were dusting with D3 every other day which can lead to D3 toxicity.
Some additional pics of his environment would be helpful as well.

The problem is that chams do not outwardly show their health issues they hide them. So we look for indicators telling us that something is not right. By the time they get to the point of eyes sunken in and no grip they are unable to hide their illness. At that point the cham is on deaths door.

I think it is a shame that you are reacting this way. In no way were you attacked or treated rudely. I read through your last thread and again you are acting in the same manner.

This is a searchable forum. Those of us who understand that include information for any other person that may search this at a later time to ensure they have the right information. So that Chameleons do not die and owners do not feel the guilt of that death.

You make a post and then get people responding trying to ensure that there is nothing you are overlooking and then you decide you do not need the help. It is a shame that you are not willing to put your chameleons health over your pride in what you do or do not know.

I asked two very important questions about your UVB lighting and supplementation. BOTH of which were incorrect in your last post. To ensure that those were corrected because both of those things can cause your chameleon to start displaying unusual behavior such as sleeping on the ground. You chose to not give information on my questions and not post additional pictures. So either you did not make the changes and do not want to be told you are incorrect in the husbandry you are providing or you think you know better then the experienced keepers within this forum.

BUT I will again say sleeping on the ground is NOT normal and rather then assuming it is because one thinks they are doing everything correctly it is wise to look at the whole husbandry picture to ensure your chams health.

Good luck to you and your cham.

My 2 cents:

Honestly.. people are just trying to help. Your chameleon will eventually suffer dearly if you cant understand this. I find it odd that you are so caught up in the 'passive-aggressive' tones of the feedback you receive, when any day now your chameleon could die from serious thermal burns, or eventually have irreversible damage, because *cough* you didn't really listen to any suggestions about lighting, supplements, ect. Husbandry in general.

Dont take it personally. This forum is to share knowledge, and provide support. The goal is to help chameleons in need and help their owners correct mistakes. You cant show up here and expect that everything is all correct and perfect.

Coming here and asking for advice, acknowledging the advice, then not even correcting anything and expecting it to be all fine and dandy is just.. dumb. Thats like going to the doctor, telling them your symptoms, getting diagnosed, then you ignore it and expect to be cured within the week. Not how it works.

I urge you to listen to what others have said, or you just wasted their time on a lost cause.

The I am right, everybody else is wrong, I know my chameleon better than you...... very sad for the cham

I'm going to throw this out there, but the people here who have extreme passion to these reptiles are blunt and to the point when it comes to changes that need to be made. I can see where people can get the wrong idea about it, but keep in mind there are between 5-10+ people who post up the same problems here on the forum that are also new users. I have to say that I'm a person who hates repeating myself, so I tend to keep my mouth shut rather than get involved in repetitive posts, but I know there are plenty of users here more patient than myself who take the task of trying to share education of the husbandry of this species.

As a recommendation to all, as this isn't the first time in a few months a post has turned this route, I would say if you lack the patience/bedside manner to support threads like this I would just take a breath and step back and let the more patient folk take care of starting the conversation. With that in mind, I'd also recommend that a sticky be posted about warning new users about a few things:

2) People who are new need to put their emotions aside about their initial investment into their pets and the information that they may have received about husbandry (especially if their Cham was purchased from a pet store and not a breeder) as 90% of pet stores are like McDonald's. If the store has a need for an employee they will tend to hire someone who is willing to take the job and shows signs that they are customer service oriented/sales oriented and may not have experience with what they are selling, just knowing what they need to know to make a sale. When it comes to this forum a lot of us have made mistakes, and I say mistakes and not solely a mistake. We are trying to educate new owners, even if it's a painful process for them to learn.

3) Chameleon's like it or not are like a culling course for Colleges. They separate those who are willing to invest time and money to keep their pets happy no matter the cost. We may have got through the Herp101 course where you previously kept a Gecko species that needed little space requirements or lighting requirements or you may have come from the snake world where a plastic bin, heat pad, thermostat and a water dish were enough to get you by. This isn't the case with Cham's and you need to forget everything you think you know from other species and look at Cham's as their own entity. These species require specific lighting, housing, watering and nutritional needs and they do not transfer solely from any other lizard species. To keep Cham's safely and happily you will need to invest money and time into their enclosures and their overall husbandry, no if and's or buts.

I hate to be blunt about it myself, but if you can't get by my third point, then Cham's sadly are just not the species of pet lizard for you.

You can lead a horse to water.........

They edited their post prior to anyone saying anything negative. They just did not want to answer questions or be questioned. It is a shame as I was trying to understand their husbandry changes and see if I could find an alternative reason for the chams behavior in case it was a situation where health issues were the cause.

This is a dead end thread. Wasting anymore of our time on it is pointless.

Agreed. And while I do agree that tone and bluntness are sometimes a problem on the forum, I do not think this was one of those cases. This was a totally tame conversation. All that was stated was matter-of-fact, without any ridicule or judgment. Just follow-up and facts.

Alright guys, last answer from me to that topic...
I dont blame any of you guys and i dont feel attacked by your attempts to help me.
Man we are in the internet and i dont have stress about what some strangers think of me.
You guys try to help and I understand that. Please continue to do so because this forum already helped me a lot.
So an honest thank you for that!

BUT telling I would not listen to any help you guys gave me is just wrong and none of you guys can know if its true what i am gonna say now.
but i love Rango and i invest so much time caring for him and i do my best to give him a good life and i really take every help that i can get.

But my mistake was that i posted my situation to this Forum before my vet/Chameleon breeder could answer me.
Because why should I ask strangers who know NOTHING about my chameleon and its life before I ask the guy who helped me setting up the life for my little boy.
No front to you, it was just my mistake that i didnt wait for an answer from the guy who knows rango and his enclosure, the food and everything.

So this was my last post on this forum, I think all of you are pretty happy about that.

But still I wish all the best for you guys and this forum <3

 

[Ares05]

" So this was my last post on the forum, I think all of you are pretty happy about that"

What was the point of that comment? When did any of us say we didn't want you here?

As for the rest of your post. Yes, we are strangers. Just because we dont. "know" your chameleon doesn't mean we cannot help. You were given good info and you made the choice (yes, you!) to blow it off. Not trying to be rude, just facts.

Nothing about a chameleons life would justify your lighting situation, current supplement schedule (unless he had some sort of vitamin/calcium issues, or he was a female, ect. Even then, it's incorrect.), general husbandry issues. That has nothing to do with it. We can still help even if we didn't hatch your animal out of the egg, believe it or not.

Vets normally dont know much about setups unless they are a chameleon specialist. They are mainly good with health issues and some of the causes of those health issues (obviously, lol. they are vets)

I do believe you care for him, but if you really want the best for him, take some of the advice you were given. If you wont do that, then just stop posting here and wasting our time.

 

[Beman]

I really like this forum but i just experienced that it wont help me here to post any things and thats why i am gonna move to being a silent spectator on this forum.

Ok you edit your post to the above..... again I am done with this thread it was a waste of my time and energy. And honestly that is more important to me then trying to understand your thinking.
Good luck to your chameleon and happy lurking.

 

[Sammy Grigio]

You Germans are an interesting bunch .

 

[cyberlocc]

Sad Post.