baggedd5087
Member
Well thats why she said "Only a vet could tell" she was just giving the OP things to look for if it were MBD, And to get the cham to eat crickets
Not using his tongue
- Thread starter q1221221
- Start date
Well thats why she said "Only a vet could tell" she was just giving the OP things to look for if it were MBD, And to get the cham to eat crickets
q1221221
New Member
I'm in San Diego, I live in Solana Beach, I looked at a vet Downtown, here is his info
Jeffrey R Jenkins, DVM, ABVP (Avian)
Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital
2317 Hotel Circle South Suite C
San Diego, California 92108-3310
Tel: (619) 260-1412
Fax: (619) 260-1499
[Website]
Comments:
# Oldest Avian & Exotic practice in the West. 2nd oldest in US. Dr. Jenkins grew up chasing, keeping and breeding reptiles. Has experience with pretty much everything! Vet self-recommended. (10/25/02)
# MP I adopted a MBD disfigured iguana nine years ago. Both Dr. Jeffrey R Jenkins & Dr. Todd R Cecil of the Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital has been instrumental in keeping her healthy in spite of her disfigurement and MBD complications. They have also treated Baby. They are both 11 years old and hopefully with the help of these doctors they will live another 11 years. (12/02/04)
# EP - I got Dragon and Baby 9 years ago. When I got Dragon, she was disfigured due to MBD. She has had problem directly and indirectly due to the MBD. Dr. Jenkins and Dr. Cecil at the Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital has treated her for the last six years. They have done an excellent job in treating her problems and keeping Baby healthy. (12/08/04)
[URL="http://www.drexotic.com/"]http://www.drexotic.com/[/URL]
But he doesn't say anything specificly about Chams
Jeffrey R Jenkins, DVM, ABVP (Avian)
Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital
2317 Hotel Circle South Suite C
San Diego, California 92108-3310
Tel: (619) 260-1412
Fax: (619) 260-1499
[Website]
Comments:
# Oldest Avian & Exotic practice in the West. 2nd oldest in US. Dr. Jenkins grew up chasing, keeping and breeding reptiles. Has experience with pretty much everything! Vet self-recommended. (10/25/02)
# MP I adopted a MBD disfigured iguana nine years ago. Both Dr. Jeffrey R Jenkins & Dr. Todd R Cecil of the Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital has been instrumental in keeping her healthy in spite of her disfigurement and MBD complications. They have also treated Baby. They are both 11 years old and hopefully with the help of these doctors they will live another 11 years. (12/02/04)
# EP - I got Dragon and Baby 9 years ago. When I got Dragon, she was disfigured due to MBD. She has had problem directly and indirectly due to the MBD. Dr. Jenkins and Dr. Cecil at the Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital has treated her for the last six years. They have done an excellent job in treating her problems and keeping Baby healthy. (12/08/04)
[URL="http://www.drexotic.com/"]http://www.drexotic.com/[/URL]
But he doesn't say anything specificly about Chams
draetish
Avid Member
This is what I was referring to when I said a "quick fix". Chams don't just have a "funky" tongue, there is something wrong.
pssh
Avid Member
Well if there was something wrong with it and it's okay now, you're never gonna know what happened. Perhaps I shouldn't have said funky. I meant it in more of a it's-just-messed-up-but-he's-perfectly-fine-otherwise way. If it is just messed up but he's fine otherwise there is a long list of possible ways that it could have happened. Probably from/because of the other owner, but if he's fine now but can only use a few inches of it then there's nothing you can really do but help him out a bit.
Regardless, he seems to have decided to take him to a vet so it doesn't really matter now.
Regardless, he seems to have decided to take him to a vet so it doesn't really matter now.
baggedd5087
Member
There better then nothing until you can get to a computer. if you want send them to my email address and i can upload them to photobucket and get bigger pictures on here. if you want my email is [email protected]
draetish
Avid Member
I'm not an expert and I think you have found a good vet. Please take your cham there and let us know the outcome. Although we all own chams on this forum, I would not want to take responsibility of you going by what is said here. Yes, there are very knowledgable keepers here, but without seeing the cham in person it is only speculation. If you really care about your cham you will have him checked out by a vet since you did not raise him. If it were me, that's what I would do. Please by all means, keep reading this forum and learning.
Can you post a picture of the chameleon please?
These are signs of MBD...
Does he look like he has an "extra" elbow above the real one? Are his arms and legs straight between the joints? Does he walk with his body held up off the branch or does he have trouble lifting his body?
Reptivite has prEformed vitamin A in it...so I wouldn't use it very often. I doubt that the 2 weeks that you have been using it would have done much damage...but I can't be sure.
Calcium, phosphorous, D3, vitamin A are the main players in bone health and play parts in other systems in the chameleon too...and they need to be in balance. When balancing them you need to look at the supplements you use, what the insects are fed and what the chameleon is fed.
UVB and appropriate temperatures, gutloading/feeding the insects a nutritious diet also play a part.
Appropriate temperatures aid in digestion and thus play an indirect part in nutrient absorption. Gutloading/feeding the insects well will provide the chameleon with healthy food. UVB (that does not pass through glass or plastic) either from direct sunlight or from a UVB light will allow the chameleon to produce D3 which will allow it to use the calcium in its system.
Since many of the feeder insects used have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus its important to dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder (I use Rep-cal) to make up for it.
I also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder (I use Rep-cal) to ensure that it has some D3 without overdoing it.
I dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene (prOformed) sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system like prEformed will. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert beta carotene..so some people use a little prEformed once in a while. Excess prEformed vitamin A can interfere with the D3 and push the chameleon towards MBD.
When a chameleon has MBD, you need to bring the nutrients back into balance and at the same time set up a supplement regiment that will keep it there so that the damage will not continue. The quickest way to bring it back in balance IMHO is to take it to a vet and get calcium injections and when the blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin which draws the calcium back into the bones rapidly. A vet is the only one who can tell you for sure (unless the deformities are obvious) that the chameleon has MBD.
Regarding "flushing" the eyes...do you know what bulb was used before you started using the new one? Were they using a UVB light?
draetish said..."in my opinion for tonight and the next week or so do not use any supplements or dusting"...and pssh said..."I would use the calcium w/o d3 less."....if the chameleon has MBD this will only add to the problems IMHO.
I am not a vet but I have over 20 years experience with chameleons and numerous other reptiles.
I hope your chameleon will recover and do well for you in the future.
These are signs of MBD...
Does he look like he has an "extra" elbow above the real one? Are his arms and legs straight between the joints? Does he walk with his body held up off the branch or does he have trouble lifting his body?
Reptivite has prEformed vitamin A in it...so I wouldn't use it very often. I doubt that the 2 weeks that you have been using it would have done much damage...but I can't be sure.
Calcium, phosphorous, D3, vitamin A are the main players in bone health and play parts in other systems in the chameleon too...and they need to be in balance. When balancing them you need to look at the supplements you use, what the insects are fed and what the chameleon is fed.
UVB and appropriate temperatures, gutloading/feeding the insects a nutritious diet also play a part.
Appropriate temperatures aid in digestion and thus play an indirect part in nutrient absorption. Gutloading/feeding the insects well will provide the chameleon with healthy food. UVB (that does not pass through glass or plastic) either from direct sunlight or from a UVB light will allow the chameleon to produce D3 which will allow it to use the calcium in its system.
Since many of the feeder insects used have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus its important to dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder (I use Rep-cal) to make up for it.
I also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder (I use Rep-cal) to ensure that it has some D3 without overdoing it.
I dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene (prOformed) sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system like prEformed will. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert beta carotene..so some people use a little prEformed once in a while. Excess prEformed vitamin A can interfere with the D3 and push the chameleon towards MBD.
When a chameleon has MBD, you need to bring the nutrients back into balance and at the same time set up a supplement regiment that will keep it there so that the damage will not continue. The quickest way to bring it back in balance IMHO is to take it to a vet and get calcium injections and when the blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin which draws the calcium back into the bones rapidly. A vet is the only one who can tell you for sure (unless the deformities are obvious) that the chameleon has MBD.
Regarding "flushing" the eyes...do you know what bulb was used before you started using the new one? Were they using a UVB light?
draetish said..."in my opinion for tonight and the next week or so do not use any supplements or dusting"...and pssh said..."I would use the calcium w/o d3 less."....if the chameleon has MBD this will only add to the problems IMHO.
I am not a vet but I have over 20 years experience with chameleons and numerous other reptiles.
I hope your chameleon will recover and do well for you in the future.
baggedd5087
Member
Here is a picture of Scotts chameleon
Last edited:
pssh said..."MBD can be prevented from getting worse but cannot be cured."...but by cutting down on the calcium as you suggested, you are not going to prevent it from getting worse.
In the picture, the chameleon is not showing any apparent signs of calcium imbalances...but it will take a vet to determine his calcium levels/bone health. The tongue problem could also be caused by infection, injury or a number of other things...which hopefully the vet could determine as well.
I hope the information I provided will still be useful to you in your husbandry, Scott.
In the picture, the chameleon is not showing any apparent signs of calcium imbalances...but it will take a vet to determine his calcium levels/bone health. The tongue problem could also be caused by infection, injury or a number of other things...which hopefully the vet could determine as well.
I hope the information I provided will still be useful to you in your husbandry, Scott.
panthercham
New Member
Firstly....welcome to the forum
Please take note on what Kinyonga has posted....this is valuable info and the best posted so far.
Could he just be eating superworms as he has a tongue issue? They are an easy target over crickets, so please let us know how he goes on silkworms.
One of my panthers will only eat superworms no matter how long I go between feedings. He has been like this since I have had him. I just make sure that they are well gutloaded with carrots, apples, kale, yam etc....its not perfect but he is nearly 2 years old and is healthy as a horse and I just monitor him very carefully. There are other keepers on here with the same problem
I would take him to the vet to make sure its not MBD or if it is to get the correct treatment and to build a relationship with a good herp vet....you never know when they will be needed in the future and its better to have confidence in a vet before there is a major problem.
Just curious why so many showers?
As to regaining his tongue movements, it really depends on what is wrong/right with him and if it can be corrected
Please take note on what Kinyonga has posted....this is valuable info and the best posted so far.
Could he just be eating superworms as he has a tongue issue? They are an easy target over crickets, so please let us know how he goes on silkworms.
One of my panthers will only eat superworms no matter how long I go between feedings. He has been like this since I have had him. I just make sure that they are well gutloaded with carrots, apples, kale, yam etc....its not perfect but he is nearly 2 years old and is healthy as a horse and I just monitor him very carefully. There are other keepers on here with the same problem
I would take him to the vet to make sure its not MBD or if it is to get the correct treatment and to build a relationship with a good herp vet....you never know when they will be needed in the future and its better to have confidence in a vet before there is a major problem.
Just curious why so many showers?
As to regaining his tongue movements, it really depends on what is wrong/right with him and if it can be corrected
baggedd5087
Member
Thanks Baggedd for posting the pics
My Pleasure anything to help out a fellow CHAM ADDICT!!
