No interest in lay bin; 14 month old female

Roz’sMom

Member
Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, female, 14 months. Eight months in my care.
  • Handling - Only when she approaches me and tries to get out of the enclosure. Also if I have to change up plants, re attach fake foliage to the enclosure walls — this has happened twice since I have had her.
  • Feeding - Dubia, red runners, superworms, occasional hornworm. Quantity: 2 large dubia, 3 super worms, 5-7 medium red runners. Fed every third or fourth day. Dry gut load: Pangaea PIG for roaches, superworms get oat bran, whole oat meal with a scoop or two of PIG. Wet gut load: mulberry leaves, rose petals, citrus, parsley/cilantro/dandelion, grape leaves, grapes, apples, carrots, any berries I can hide away from my kids, herptivite/no d3 calcium when I remember. I usually chop it fine and put it in the bug bins 2-3 times a week. Roaches get water crystals and the super worms seem to get enough liquid from the wet gut load.
  • Supplements - Repcal calcium without D3 at every regular feeding. Zoomed Repti-calcium with D3 1x per month, usually around the 15th, Repcal Herptivite 1x per month, usually around the 25th.
  • Watering - Drip watering 1 pint warm water in the morning, one pint warm water in the evening when I get home from work. Reptifogger on timer 15 minutes out of every hour. I have seen her drink before, but not recently.
  • Fecal Description - Dark brown, brown, and sometimes tan with some white urate. I do not believe she has been tested for parasites.
  • History - When I got her, the previous owner only fed her superworms. She was sold because the previous owner was moving out of state and did not want to stress her with a move.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze NT 12, 18x18x36
  • Lighting - Zoo Med 14" T5 High Output x2, one at front of enclosure one at back. 8am-8pm. Basking bulb 25 watt, 6 inches from branch where she basks.
  • Temperature - Cage floor currently 65.1F, basking spot currently 79F. Lowest overnight 60. Two thermometers with probes, one just above cage floor and other near basking spot. During summer months (May-October, sadly) the temps run about 10F higher.
  • Humidity - As low as 36% and as high as 67 when Reptifogger is cycling, 15 minutes every hour. Zilla hygrometer and thermometer combo, placed just above cage floor.
  • Plants - Hibiscus rosa-sinensis and Ficus benjamina, also fake silk and plastic foliage wired to the screen to mimic an actual shrub and help maintain humidity.
  • Placement - On top of my husband’s chest of drawers near a window. Four feet away from air vent and ceiling fan. Not in high traffic area. Top of the cage is 7 feet from the room floor. When fan is running or air vent is running I place a bed sheet over 2.5 sides of enclosure to stop draft and humidity loss.
  • Location - California, USDA zone 9, desert.

Current Problem - I have had a lay bin in her enclosure since she was 6 months old, but she does not use it. Lay bin measures 12x10x6. I check it every day to see if she has gone into it so I can transfer her to jannb’s trashcan setup. Mostly she just poops in it, haha! I am afraid she may become egg bound. I’ve tried to keep her cooler and a little hungrier like jannb suggests in her care sheet. Am I doing it right and prolonging the egg laying cycle or is something wrong with my husbandry? She’s my first chameleon and I adore her. We have a vet who did her dissertation on chameleons, here in town (I am so grateful) and I can take her to that clinic if need be.
 

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ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, female, 14 months. Eight months in my care.
  • Handling - Only when she approaches me and tries to get out of the enclosure. Also if I have to change up plants, re attach fake foliage to the enclosure walls — this has happened twice since I have had her.
  • Feeding - Dubia, red runners, superworms, occasional hornworm. Quantity: 2 large dubia, 3 super worms, 5-7 medium red runners. Fed every third or fourth day. Dry gut load: Pangaea PIG for roaches, superworms get oat bran, whole oat meal with a scoop or two of PIG. Wet gut load: mulberry leaves, rose petals, citrus, parsley/cilantro/dandelion, grape leaves, grapes, apples, carrots, any berries I can hide away from my kids, herptivite/no d3 calcium when I remember. I usually chop it fine and put it in the bug bins 2-3 times a week. Roaches get water crystals and the super worms seem to get enough liquid from the wet gut load.
  • Supplements - Repcal calcium without D3 at every regular feeding. Zoomed Repti-calcium with D3 1x per month, usually around the 15th, Repcal Herptivite 1x per month, usually around the 25th.
  • Watering - Drip watering 1 pint warm water in the morning, one pint warm water in the evening when I get home from work. Reptifogger on timer 15 minutes out of every hour. I have seen her drink before, but not recently.
  • Fecal Description - Dark brown, brown, and sometimes tan with some white urate. I do not believe she has been tested for parasites.
  • History - When I got her, the previous owner only fed her superworms. She was sold because the previous owner was moving out of state and did not want to stress her with a move.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - Reptibreeze NT 12, 18x18x36
  • Lighting - Zoo Med 14" T5 High Output x2, one at front of enclosure one at back. 8am-8pm. Basking bulb 25 watt, 6 inches from branch where she basks.
  • Temperature - Cage floor currently 65.1F, basking spot currently 79F. Lowest overnight 60. Two thermometers with probes, one just above cage floor and other near basking spot. During summer months (May-October, sadly) the temps run about 10F higher.
  • Humidity - As low as 36% and as high as 67 when Reptifogger is cycling, 15 minutes every hour. Zilla hygrometer and thermometer combo, placed just above cage floor.
  • Plants - Hibiscus rosa-sinensis and Ficus benjamina, also fake silk and plastic foliage wired to the screen to mimic an actual shrub and help maintain humidity.
  • Placement - On top of my husband’s chest of drawers near a window. Four feet away from air vent and ceiling fan. Not in high traffic area. Top of the cage is 7 feet from the room floor. When fan is running or air vent is running I place a bed sheet over 2.5 sides of enclosure to stop draft and humidity loss.
  • Location - California, USDA zone 9, desert.

Current Problem - I have had a lay bin in her enclosure since she was 6 months old, but she does not use it. Lay bin measures 12x10x6. I check it every day to see if she has gone into it so I can transfer her to jannb’s trashcan setup. Mostly she just poops in it, haha! I am afraid she may become egg bound. I’ve tried to keep her cooler and a little hungrier like jannb suggests in her care sheet. Am I doing it right and prolonging the egg laying cycle or is something wrong with my husbandry? She’s my first chameleon and I adore her. We have a vet who did her dissertation on chameleons, here in town (I am so grateful) and I can take her to that clinic if need be.
You can feed all the feeders the Pangea gutload (you can make it into a paste, too) and wet gutload (there’s a gutload list in food and nutrition in the resources tab here if you want to add in more organic fresh fruits and veggies, etc). I do both, also. Don’t use supplement as a gutload. Superworms should only be fed occasionally, not as a staple. Try some more feeders, like crickets, silkworms, butterworms, oranges headed roaches (can’t climb or fly), ivory headed roaches (can’t climb or fly), green banana roaches, black soldier flies and larvae, blue bottle flies, and mantids, just to name a few. Variety is key! Feed her every other day and only in the morning (the veiled care sheet here has proper feeding amounts, make sure not to over feed her or she could have complications with egg laying from having larger clutch sizes). RepCal isn’t the best supplement brand. There are many ways to supplement:
1- phosphorous free calcium without D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3) every feeding, phosphorous free calcium with D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium with D3) every two weeks, and multivitamin without D3 (like Zoo Med Reptivite without D3) every two weeks
2- phosphorous free calcium without D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3) every feeding and a multivitamin with D3 (like Zoo Med Reptivite with D3) every two weeks
3- an all in one supplement (like Repashy Calcium Plus LoD or Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall- gutload with Sticky Tongue Farms Vitall the night before if using Minerall) every feeding
4- Arcadia supplements using the Arcadia insectivore supplement schedule off of their website
She should be misted at least 3 times a day for at least 2 minutes each time, but preferably for 5. Don’t use warm water, use room temperature water. Only use one t5HO uvb bulb and fixture. What strength is your uvb? Raise the basking light up higher and get a higher wattage, basking should 8-10 inches away and be at 85*F. Humidity should always be between 40-70%, up the misting and misting lengths and add some more cham safe live plants to help with this. Lay bin should be a minimum of 12” by 12” by 12”, but preferably 14” by 14” by 14” or 16” by 16” by 16”. You might have to make a starter hole for her and/or put some branches or vines in or near the bin
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Make sure to give her complete privacy as well. Cover her cage and leave her be, don’t let her see or hear you
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Do you mean I should keep her completely covered like this every day? Because I need to check the lay bin, feed and clean.
No, still feed her and everything, just be careful to not disturb her. If she’s in the lay bin, come back another time and make sure to not let her sense you. She’s receptive, so she should lay soon. Make sure to give her extra calcium before and after laying, along with extra hydration. This correct, @Brodybreaux25 and @jannb ?
 

Roz’sMom

Member
I’ve been trying to follow this care sheet pretty closely:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/

And I was trying to implement the “kinyonga mini lay bin then upgrade to jannb trashcan” method. Kinyonga mentioned she used Repcal in one of her posts a few years back and I followed her lead. Has the formula changed recently?

I have one t5HO bulb for her and the old (not fresh) bulb in there for the plants. I need to up the wattage of my basking lamp I think because we have finally settled into autumnal temperatures in the CA desert.

Thanks and please keep the feedback coming. :)
 

Thehippie

Chameleon Enthusiast
well her basking spot as a pretty much adult female should be 85 degrees f with an ambient of 70-80 degrees f so maybe she doesn't wanna go down there because its too cold for her and she wants to stay near the warmth. along with that make sure you also leave her the chance and privacy to lay. I hope all goes well for you and her, if she doesn't lay, you might want to get her checked out by the vet to make sure she is not egg bound
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
No, still feed her and everything, just be careful to not disturb her. If she’s in the lay bin, come back another time and make sure to not let her sense you. She’s receptive, so she should lay soon. Make sure to give her extra calcium before and after laying, along with extra hydration. This correct, @Brodybreaux25 and @jannb ?
Correct, she is definitely developing eggs in there. Why don’t you want her to lay in the bin in the viv? Looks perfect.

About covering the viv, this is a crucial step to make her comfortable. When my girl is about to lay I cover the lower 3/4 to 1/2 of the cage, not the whole thing. That way you can still monitor her without disturbing her much.

You may want to invest in a cheap WiFi baby monitor, I use them to check up on my gravid females without the risk of disturbing them. They are like $40 on amazon.
 

Roz’sMom

Member
Correct, she is definitely developing eggs in there. Why don’t you want her to lay in the bin in the viv? Looks perfect.

About covering the viv, this is a crucial step to make her comfortable. When my girl is about to lay I cover the lower 3/4 to 1/2 of the cage, not the whole thing. That way you can still monitor her without disturbing her much.

You may want to invest in a cheap WiFi baby monitor, I use them to check up on my gravid females without the risk of disturbing them. They are like $40 on amazon.
Great ideas about only covering the bottom half and getting a baby monitor! I will definitely implement these. As for not using the in viv lay bin, I guess I am nervous? I was trying to replicate successful members practices and figured mine wasn’t as good because I am still new to the hobby. I think once she offloads this first clutch I will feel much more confident and relieved.
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
Great ideas about only covering the bottom half and getting a baby monitor! I will definitely implement these. As for not using the in viv lay bin, I guess I am nervous? I was trying to replicate successful members practices and figured mine wasn’t as good because I am still new to the hobby. I think once she offloads this first clutch I will feel much more confident and relieved.
Just noticed it’s only 6” deep. Is it 6”of sand or is it the bin itself that’s 6” tall?
 

Roz’sMom

Member
The bin is 6-7 inches deep and it’s filled with 6 inches of sand. I don’t see scratch marks near or around my pseudo hole and she doesn’t use the branch I have sticking into it. My plan was to transfer her to the trash can as soon as I saw scratches. She does poop into it. :LOL:
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
The bin is 6-7 inches deep and it’s filled with 6 inches of sand. I don’t see scratch marks near or around my pseudo hole and she doesn’t use the branch I have sticking into it. My plan was to transfer her to the trash can as soon as I saw scratches. She does poop into it. :LOL:
It needs to be deeper
 

Roz’sMom

Member
It needs to be deeper
I put in a 10x10x10 planter and put the damp play sand in, it’s filled to about 2 inches below the lid now (at least 8 inches deep). I need to get more sand out of the garage tomorrow. I’ve made her a demonstration hole in the sand.

I also added a Tradescantia zebrina which I kept on my gecko viv for increased humidity. I can always get (grow) another one.

I included a picture of the enclosure wrapped up for privacy and how it is at night while she sleeps; I, of course, turn the lights off.

Edited to add: do the multi-purpose buckets from hardware stores or plastic cat litter boxes (the buckets the litter is sold in) work well? I am trying to find deeper containers that will still fit in her viv.
 

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Dave85731

Established Member
The pictures you posted of her are receptive colors she’s not ready yet you’ll know when she’s ready she won’t eat at all so if she’s still eating your good and also with females if you keep the temps low enough she won’t lay eggs her body can retain them and obsorb them there’s a word for it I forget but if she’s eating still you got plenty of time
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
Your 10” planter is perfect, no need for an oversized bucket. And since she is just developing the eggs now and not about to lay I would cover no more than the bottom half of the viv. Your temps and humidity are going to sky rocket if you leave it like that.
 

Roz’sMom

Member
Your 10” planter is perfect, no need for an oversized bucket. And since she is just developing the eggs now and not about to lay I would cover no more than the bottom half of the viv. Your temps and humidity are going to sky rocket if you leave it like that.
I am one of those heathens that has to sleep with the overhead fan on year round and I live in the CA desert. Her night temps and humidity are pretty steady with it running all night. Humidity at avg of 67% (measured at bottom of the viv) and ambient temp average of both thermometers is 66.7F prior to lights on.

I need a stronger basking lamp though, this is my summer lamp. I need to up the wattage for winter. I’ve got a 25 watt Exoterra daytime basking lamp in there now, and I’m getting up to 79F. During summer months it runs about 10-12F hotter, due to increased ambient temps. What do you recommend?
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I am one of those heathens that has to sleep with the overhead fan on year round and I live in the CA desert. Her night temps and humidity are pretty steady with it running all night. Humidity at avg of 67% (measured at bottom of the viv) and ambient temp average of both thermometers is 66.7F prior to lights on.

I need a stronger basking lamp though, this is my summer lamp. I need to up the wattage for winter. I’ve got a 25 watt Exoterra daytime basking lamp in there now, and I’m getting up to 79F. During summer months it runs about 10-12F hotter, due to increased ambient temps. What do you recommend?
Start with a 40 watt and play with the wattages until you get around 85*
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
I am one of those heathens that has to sleep with the overhead fan on year round and I live in the CA desert. Her night temps and humidity are pretty steady with it running all night. Humidity at avg of 67% (measured at bottom of the viv) and ambient temp average of both thermometers is 66.7F prior to lights on.

I need a stronger basking lamp though, this is my summer lamp. I need to up the wattage for winter. I’ve got a 25 watt Exoterra daytime basking lamp in there now, and I’m getting up to 79F. During summer months it runs about 10-12F hotter, due to increased ambient temps. What do you recommend?
No need to pay extra for “reptile” basking lights. Standard incandescent bulbs work just as well.

And I was concerned about your Temps/humidity during the day with it being fully covered, not nite.
 
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