No eating, barley moving. Gravid?

Hey I have a female panther named spoon and she hasn’t been moving around at all really she just sits on her basking branch, and also isn’t wanting to eat at all. I did just finish giving her the antibiotic for an RI because she had a little cough I was worried about and she shed a couple of days ago so I thought that might be why. But she’s still not wanting to eat or move. Could she be Gravid? She has gotten noticeably darker the past few weeks but she hasn’t layed eggs before so I’m not sure exactly what to look for. She has a 8x12x10 laying bin at the bottom of her cage with washed play sand but I haven’t even seen her go near it.
 

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Ambilobe123

Established Member
Hey I have a female panther named spoon and she hasn’t been moving around at all really she just sits on her basking branch, and also isn’t wanting to eat at all. I did just finish giving her the antibiotic for an RI because she had a little cough I was worried about and she shed a couple of days ago so I thought that might be why. But she’s still not wanting to eat or move. Could she be Gravid? She has gotten noticeably darker the past few weeks but she hasn’t layed eggs before so I’m not sure exactly what to look for. She has a 8x12x10 laying bin at the bottom of her cage with washed play sand but I haven’t even seen her go near it.
Yes, based on those colours she is likely gravid. How old is she?

Being gravid this early on is not a cause of not wanting to eat or move. If you fill out the husbandry form, we will be able to help you better.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 
Yes, based on those colours she is likely gravid. How old is she?

Being gravid this early on is not a cause of not wanting to eat or move. If you fill out the husbandry form, we will be able to help you better.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
The pet store didn’t have an age for her when I got her in December but I’m thinking 7-10 months.

•chameleon-female panther chameleon, 7-10 months I’ve had her for almost 4 months
•handIing- used to take her out once a day or every other day when I fed her but I haven’t the past 3ish weeks
•feeding- I feed her mainly crickets with some dubia roaches and I’ll give her a couple wax or meal worms a couple time I week. I’ll feed her 7-10 bugs a day and I’ve been just leaving them in a feeder cup but used to hand feed her. I put grapes/carrots/apples in with the feeders.
•supplements- I cannot remember the brand off the top of my head, but I use calcium w/out d3 every feeding and a multivitamin with d3 every other Wednesday.
•drinking- I mist her cage once before she wakes up at 8 and once after she goes to bed at 9:30 for 3 mins each and I have a dropper during the day. I do see her drinking.
•fecal- firm brown part with the urate almost all white with a little bit of orange at the end. Got her fecal tested 2 weeks ago and came out good.
•history- she used to climb around all over and come out whenever I put my hand in the cage. Also had antibiotic for ri a few weeks ago.
•I built a cage for her it’s 24x24x36 with all screen besides one as a divider as I have a veiled next to her. With 4-5 live plants laying bin and sticks.
•lighting- again can’t remember off the top of my head I’ll have to look when I get home. But I have a 48’’ linear t5 uvb going across 2 cages. With a 65w heat lamp. Light go from 8:30-8:30
•temp- it’ll go from 65 at the bottom to 85 at her basking spot and at night it’ll drop to 65-70 in the cage. I’m using a laser heat gun from Home Depot.
•humidity- stays at around 40 during the day and at night will go up to 70-75. I use live plants and a mist king to keep the humidity up. Using hygrometer.
•plants- I have a golden pothos, money tree, and two other I cannot remember but will post a picture.
•location- the cage is at the foot of my bed and at night I cover it with towels so light doesn’t get into the cage. There is a a couple feet above the cage not blowing down into it. The cage is about 4 feet at the top.
•I’m located in northern Utah.

•current problem- not moving barley eating.
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay I did. What is that?
See the pouch between her front arms. How it is puffy there? It should be smooth. She is holding excess fluids causing edema. Typically this is from supplements but since she just came off the meds it could be from that. Do you have any pictures of her prior to the meds?

Can you take a picture of the supplements your using just so I can double check them?
 
See the pouch between her front arms. How it is puffy there? It should be smooth. She is holding excess fluids causing edema. Typically this is from supplements but since she just came off the meds it could be from that. Do you have any pictures of her prior to the meds?

Can you take a picture of the supplements your using just so I can double check them?
I was wondering about that cause she’s had it before the meds. I did see another Cham with it so I just assumed it was normal. I did take her to the vet a couple weeks ago and he said she looked fine. I’m at work rn but I will definitely send some pictures when I get home
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I was wondering about that cause she’s had it before the meds. I did see another Cham with it so I just assumed it was normal. I did take her to the vet a couple weeks ago and he said she looked fine. I’m at work rn but I will definitely send some pictures when I get home
Yeah, it is not normal so you might look into getting a Vet with more chameleon experience.

Post your supplements when you get home. Just so we can double check. I know some females will get it when they are gravid as well. So depending on how long she has actually had it will tell us more.
 
Yeah, it is not normal so you might look into getting a Vet with more chameleon experience.

Post your supplements when you get home. Just so we can double check. I know some females will get it when they are gravid as well. So depending on how long she has actually had it will tell us more.
The picture of her on the jar was feb 4th the other picture of her on the cage is feb 17th. I was going to go to another vet that I’ve heard was pretty good with chameleons but they’re not accepting anymore clients because of COVID, so I went to another one they recommended.
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
The picture of her on the jar was feb 4th the other picture of her on the cage is feb 17th. I was going to go to another vet that I’ve heard was pretty good with chameleons but they’re not accepting anymore clients because of COVID, so I went to another one they recommended.
So the Feb 4th image is more normal then the Feb 17th. It could very well be due to her becoming gravid. But lets just double check when you get home what supplements your using to rule that out. :)
 
Yeah, it is not normal so you might look into getting a Vet with more chameleon experience.

Post your supplements when you get home. Just so we can double check. I know some females will get it when they are gravid as well. So depending on how long she has actually had it will tell us more.
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
@Veiledpanther15 See my feedback in bold.

The pet store didn’t have an age for her when I got her in December but I’m thinking 7-10 months.

•chameleon-female panther chameleon, 7-10 months I’ve had her for almost 4 months
•handIing- used to take her out once a day or every other day when I fed her but I haven’t the past 3ish weeks
•feeding- I feed her mainly crickets with some dubia roaches and I’ll give her a couple wax or meal worms a couple time I week. I’ll feed her 7-10 bugs a day and I’ve been just leaving them in a feeder cup but used to hand feed her. I put grapes/carrots/apples in with the feeders. She is eating a bit too much for a female. With females temps at basking and food intake directly impact how many eggs she will lay. You want her to be eating 3 days a week of three feeders. I would drop the mealworms and waxworms. Mealworms are very low in nutritional value and waxworms are all fat. You could add in superworms or even BSFL. See image below for feeders and gutload. You will want to expand your gutload to include more of the leafy greens on this image.
•supplements- I cannot remember the brand off the top of my head, but I use calcium w/out d3 every feeding and a multivitamin with d3 every other Wednesday. Per the image of your supplements those work. And your rotation is perfect. On the new feeding schedule you would still only give the reptivite with D3 2 times a month so every other week at one feeding then all the other feedings would be calcium without D3. Make sure your lightly dusting feeders. No powdered donuts look.
•drinking- I mist her cage once before she wakes up at 8 and once after she goes to bed at 9:30 for 3 mins each and I have a dropper during the day. I do see her drinking. this is good.
•fecal- firm brown part with the urate almost all white with a little bit of orange at the end. Got her fecal tested 2 weeks ago and came out good. wonderful.
•history- she used to climb around all over and come out whenever I put my hand in the cage. Also had antibiotic for ri a few weeks ago.
•I built a cage for her it’s 24x24x36 with all screen besides one as a divider as I have a veiled next to her. With 4-5 live plants laying bin and sticks. see image below for laying bin. You can use washed play sand or a combo of sand and soil.
•lighting- again can’t remember off the top of my head I’ll have to look when I get home. But I have a 48’’ linear t5 uvb going across 2 cages. With a 65w heat lamp. Light go from 8:30-8:30 Double check this for me. I would like to know the bulb strength and the distance to basking branch below it.
•temp- it’ll go from 65 at the bottom to 85 at her basking spot and at night it’ll drop to 65-70 in the cage. I’m using a laser heat gun from Home Depot. You want to reduce basking temp since she is a girl. 78-80 MAX. I prefer the temp gauge with wired probe at basking to get a real temp rather then the surface temp you get from a gun.
•humidity- stays at around 40 during the day and at night will go up to 70-75. I use live plants and a mist king to keep the humidity up. Using hygrometer. 40% is just slightly too low for daytime 50-60% is usually the range we want for a Panther.
•plants- I have a golden pothos, money tree, and two other I cannot remember but will post a picture.
•location- the cage is at the foot of my bed and at night I cover it with towels so light doesn’t get into the cage. There is a a couple feet above the cage not blowing down into it. The cage is about 4 feet at the top.
•I’m located in northern Utah.

•current problem- not moving barley eating.

I think she is gravid... But she is also showing edema. This could very well be due to her getting ready to lay. Or it could be due to the antibiotic. I am not as concerned about the not eating or basking but if she becomes lethargic or closing her eyes during the day she needs a Vet asap. If you have a good reptile vet you can take her to they can take an xray to see where she is with her eggs.

You will not want basking to be over 78-80 for her. Very important for females because she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. This along with feeder schedule being 3 feeders 3 days a week will help reduce clutch size making it easier on her. The exception is after they lay. You will feed her well for a few days.

Can you show a few pics of the lay bin? You may need to cover the bottom half of the cage so she feels like she has more privacy. Typically people will use a lightweight sheet for this. You want to make sure if she digs it will hold a tunnel which is why more people use washed playsand. The bin does not need to be deep 6 inches will work fine for her. Here is a link with a video about the playsand and what you need to do with it. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/



chameleon-gutload.jpg
chameleon-food(1).jpg
laybin graphic.jpg
 
@Veiledpanther15 See my feedback in bold.

The pet store didn’t have an age for her when I got her in December but I’m thinking 7-10 months.

•chameleon-female panther chameleon, 7-10 months I’ve had her for almost 4 months
•handIing- used to take her out once a day or every other day when I fed her but I haven’t the past 3ish weeks
•feeding- I feed her mainly crickets with some dubia roaches and I’ll give her a couple wax or meal worms a couple time I week. I’ll feed her 7-10 bugs a day and I’ve been just leaving them in a feeder cup but used to hand feed her. I put grapes/carrots/apples in with the feeders. She is eating a bit too much for a female. With females temps at basking and food intake directly impact how many eggs she will lay. You want her to be eating 3 days a week of three feeders. I would drop the mealworms and waxworms. Mealworms are very low in nutritional value and waxworms are all fat. You could add in superworms or even BSFL. See image below for feeders and gutload. You will want to expand your gutload to include more of the leafy greens on this image.
•supplements- I cannot remember the brand off the top of my head, but I use calcium w/out d3 every feeding and a multivitamin with d3 every other Wednesday. Per the image of your supplements those work. And your rotation is perfect. On the new feeding schedule you would still only give the reptivite with D3 2 times a month so every other week at one feeding then all the other feedings would be calcium without D3. Make sure your lightly dusting feeders. No powdered donuts look.
•drinking- I mist her cage once before she wakes up at 8 and once after she goes to bed at 9:30 for 3 mins each and I have a dropper during the day. I do see her drinking. this is good.
•fecal- firm brown part with the urate almost all white with a little bit of orange at the end. Got her fecal tested 2 weeks ago and came out good. wonderful.
•history- she used to climb around all over and come out whenever I put my hand in the cage. Also had antibiotic for ri a few weeks ago.
•I built a cage for her it’s 24x24x36 with all screen besides one as a divider as I have a veiled next to her. With 4-5 live plants laying bin and sticks. see image below for laying bin. You can use washed play sand or a combo of sand and soil.
•lighting- again can’t remember off the top of my head I’ll have to look when I get home. But I have a 48’’ linear t5 uvb going across 2 cages. With a 65w heat lamp. Light go from 8:30-8:30 Double check this for me. I would like to know the bulb strength and the distance to basking branch below it.
•temp- it’ll go from 65 at the bottom to 85 at her basking spot and at night it’ll drop to 65-70 in the cage. I’m using a laser heat gun from Home Depot. You want to reduce basking temp since she is a girl. 78-80 MAX. I prefer the temp gauge with wired probe at basking to get a real temp rather then the surface temp you get from a gun.
•humidity- stays at around 40 during the day and at night will go up to 70-75. I use live plants and a mist king to keep the humidity up. Using hygrometer. 40% is just slightly too low for daytime 50-60% is usually the range we want for a Panther.
•plants- I have a golden pothos, money tree, and two other I cannot remember but will post a picture.
•location- the cage is at the foot of my bed and at night I cover it with towels so light doesn’t get into the cage. There is a a couple feet above the cage not blowing down into it. The cage is about 4 feet at the top.
•I’m located in northern Utah.

•current problem- not moving barley eating.

I think she is gravid... But she is also showing edema. This could very well be due to her getting ready to lay. Or it could be due to the antibiotic. I am not as concerned about the not eating or basking but if she becomes lethargic or closing her eyes during the day she needs a Vet asap. If you have a good reptile vet you can take her to they can take an xray to see where she is with her eggs.

You will not want basking to be over 78-80 for her. Very important for females because she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. This along with feeder schedule being 3 feeders 3 days a week will help reduce clutch size making it easier on her. The exception is after they lay. You will feed her well for a few days.

Can you show a few pics of the lay bin? You may need to cover the bottom half of the cage so she feels like she has more privacy. Typically people will use a lightweight sheet for this. You want to make sure if she digs it will hold a tunnel which is why more people use washed playsand. The bin does not need to be deep 6 inches will work fine for her. Here is a link with a video about the playsand and what you need to do with it. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/



View attachment 297098View attachment 297099View attachment 297100
Thanks for the info. I’ll cut her back on the food, also I’ll get a new probe and the light is a reptisun 65w with the basking branch 10’’ below. I’ve been keeping a towel on the front of her cage so she can have some privacy. Any advice on bringing the humidity up more during the day? And any recommendations on a light so I could bring the temp down a little bit? Is the anythjng I should be doing to help get rid of the edema? (Picture is of her this morning)
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks for the info. I’ll cut her back on the food, also I’ll get a new probe and the light is a reptisun 65w with the basking branch 10’’ below. I’ve been keeping a towel on the front of her cage so she can have some privacy. Any advice on bringing the humidity up more during the day? And any recommendations on a light so I could bring the temp down a little bit? Is the anythjng I should be doing to help get rid of the edema? (Picture is of her this morning)
Ok so the bulb I need the info off of is the long one. There is not a 65 watt that I know of in a 22 inch bulb. It should say 5.0 or 10.0 at one end of the bulb on the glass.

First I would buy this gauge and see if that is really where your humidity is sitting. It works with an app on your phone and will give you exacts. Not all humidity gauges are reliable for accurate info. You do not want this in a direct spray path though. So place it where it will not get wet. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R586J37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With you having a Veiled in the same room next to her trying to bump ambient humidity for one without the other is going to be key. Because your veiled should be in the 30-40% range and your panther in the 50-60% range. You can use this window film on the back and side panel this will make the cage more of a hybrid cage and hold humidity better and balance temps. https://www.amazon.com/Duck-10-Wind...ywords=duct+window+film&qid=1617031029&sr=8-3

With basking temps you have two options reduce bulb strength or raise the fixture. If you are using a focused basking bulb (these are flat on the bottom) they tend to run warmer IMO. So switching to a regular incandescent bulb 60 watt should drop temp at basking. To raise the fixture you can buy one of these and modify the bracket... I drilled holes in the mounting plate that line up with my cage frame in the back corner. Then buy 1/4 inch self tapping screws and mount the plate to the frame. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007D1BUJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here are some pics of mine and how I do them.

basking hooked in1.JPGbasking hooked in3.JPG
 
Ok so the bulb I need the info off of is the long one. There is not a 65 watt that I know of in a 22 inch bulb. It should say 5.0 or 10.0 at one end of the bulb on the glass.

First I would buy this gauge and see if that is really where your humidity is sitting. It works with an app on your phone and will give you exacts. Not all humidity gauges are reliable for accurate info. You do not want this in a direct spray path though. So place it where it will not get wet. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R586J37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With you having a Veiled in the same room next to her trying to bump ambient humidity for one without the other is going to be key. Because your veiled should be in the 30-40% range and your panther in the 50-60% range. You can use this window film on the back and side panel this will make the cage more of a hybrid cage and hold humidity better and balance temps. https://www.amazon.com/Duck-10-Wind...ywords=duct+window+film&qid=1617031029&sr=8-3

With basking temps you have two options reduce bulb strength or raise the fixture. If you are using a focused basking bulb (these are flat on the bottom) they tend to run warmer IMO. So switching to a regular incandescent bulb 60 watt should drop temp at basking. To raise the fixture you can buy one of these and modify the bracket... I drilled holes in the mounting plate that line up with my cage frame in the back corner. Then buy 1/4 inch self tapping screws and mount the plate to the frame. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007D1BUJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here are some pics of mine and how I do them.

View attachment 297176View attachment 297177
Sorry I thought you were talking about the basking bulb not the uvb, it’s an Arcadia D3 6% uvb t5 46’’ going across the top of both cages. I’ll get that humidity gauge and window film, I’ll raise the light today when i get home. But should I be concerned about the edema or will that just start going away after she lays? Thanks again for all your help.

 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry I thought you were talking about the basking bulb not the uvb, it’s an Arcadia D3 6% uvb t5 46’’ going across the top of both cages. I’ll get that humidity gauge and window film, I’ll raise the light today when i get home. But should I be concerned about the edema or will that just start going away after she lays? Thanks again for all your help.

Ok so with that bulb in a single bulb fixture you want to have the branch at 9 inches below. So if it is a measured 10 inches your still within range below the uvb and I would not worry about it.

This is the thing about the edema... Most commonly it is related to supplementation issues. So when supplements are corrected it resolves over a few weeks. Your supplements are fine. If the vet gave her a vitamin shot when they did the meds that could potentially be the cause. Or even the meds. Again both would result in a reduction over time. Now if this is linked to her laying. Which is the potential that I am leaning towards in your situation. It should resolve once she lays. Edema always takes time to subside. Your looking at weeks not days.

You want to keep an eye on it. But I would not panic about it. As long as she is not lethargic and is acting mostly normal. Keep in mind if she is getting close to laying you should not be handling her. If she is pacing the cage that is fine because she needs to discover her lay bin.
 
Ok so with that bulb in a single bulb fixture you want to have the branch at 9 inches below. So if it is a measured 10 inches your still within range below the uvb and I would not worry about it.

This is the thing about the edema... Most commonly it is related to supplementation issues. So when supplements are corrected it resolves over a few weeks. Your supplements are fine. If the vet gave her a vitamin shot when they did the meds that could potentially be the cause. Or even the meds. Again both would result in a reduction over time. Now if this is linked to her laying. Which is the potential that I am leaning towards in your situation. It should resolve once she lays. Edema always takes time to subside. Your looking at weeks not days.

You want to keep an eye on it. But I would not panic about it. As long as she is not lethargic and is acting mostly normal. Keep in mind if she is getting close to laying you should not be handling her. If she is pacing the cage that is fine because she needs to discover her lay bin.
Okay thank you. She’s been kind of fatigued it seemed like when she was on her meds but she’s been moving around more now. I have not handled her since I gave her the last shot. And I keep her cage covere.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Okay thank you. She’s been kind of fatigued it seemed like when she was on her meds but she’s been moving around more now. I have not handled her since I gave her the last shot. And I keep her cage covere.
Ok just make sure as far as covering the cage.... You want her to still have airflow. So this is why typically the cage half down is covered with a loose sheet to give privacy when they go down to look at the lay bin and when they lay. But the top is open so they have air flow.
 
Ok just make sure as far as covering the cage.... You want her to still have airflow. So this is why typically the cage half down is covered with a loose sheet to give privacy when they go down to look at the lay bin and when they lay. But the top is open so they have air flow.
Okay makes sense I’ll change it once I get home today. I appreciate it
 
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