New to Chameleons, and heres my enclosusre build
- Thread starter Taro
- Start date
Will Hayward
New Member
Taro, I'm on you left out in Southern Ontario. Brandy is out here with me as well as user: Kinyonga. Neither of us have more than a handful of pygmies to provide you with at the moment as we have both set aside breeding them to focus on other things, but I am unsure as to why you are stressing that you need reliable CB pygmy chameleons. First, there is NO large, nor constant source for CBs in all of Canada. Even in all the united states, they are not regularly offered and available as captive bred.
Second point is that this doesn't stop any of us keeping them or breeding or etc, to pass up an opportunity to buy Wild Caught specimens. The most common species you will find are fairly hardy in all honesty IF you provide them with the adequate necessities. You WILL loose some, but buying any WC can be slightly risky, just be sure that you pick the healthiest, appropriate amounts of males to lower stress level, and you shouldn't have too much trouble with their health. They acclimate quite quickly and very well with natural cages like you are making it seems.
One of your reasons for not getting them is their short life spans. They can definitely pass on fairly quickly with ages from 2-3 and slightly longer possibly. But, how does that make it different from true large chameleons. Many females that breed only have lifespans of a few years as well, and because care on may species isn't quite written in stone as of yet, there are plenty of large species that only have a 6 month lifespan in captivity.
Heres the counter point though. When given adequate enclosures, most species of pygmy chameleons that are available to us in Canada, are prolific breeders, thus ensuring that you have future offspring to keep on the lineage of your chameleons. Every once and a while all you have to do is add some new bloodlines when they become available to you.
If you plant this cage densely and provide plenty of filtration and drainage in the bottom, it seems like it would be ideal for pygmy chameleons. (And as a bonus, yes the glass front could be used in this application- though I don't see the glass front working well for larger chameleons.
As I said, I'm in Canada as well. I know your woes about our 0% humidity, as do some of the northern US state members. There are probably more practical ways to cage true chameleons here than what you seems to be leaning towards. If you have msn or contact me by email, I can show you some of my cages that fight the difficult weather here. You can search though my past posts for photos as well.
I found it a little odd that you said this... you said you originally built the tank for dart frogs, but were thinking chameleons instead, but the reason you switched WAS NOT because you thought they would be better suited for it. Now in response to where Heika said pygmies like it humid, but not constantly wet, you say that dart frogs are the same way. Why would you have built the cage with so much water influence if dart frogs are the same way?
Last point, I have never heard of either veileds or panthers living over water, or streams. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but as far as I have found there is only one recorded sighting of a chameleon IN water (See Necas book, Jewels) and it was not a species similar to either the veiled or panther.
Second point is that this doesn't stop any of us keeping them or breeding or etc, to pass up an opportunity to buy Wild Caught specimens. The most common species you will find are fairly hardy in all honesty IF you provide them with the adequate necessities. You WILL loose some, but buying any WC can be slightly risky, just be sure that you pick the healthiest, appropriate amounts of males to lower stress level, and you shouldn't have too much trouble with their health. They acclimate quite quickly and very well with natural cages like you are making it seems.
One of your reasons for not getting them is their short life spans. They can definitely pass on fairly quickly with ages from 2-3 and slightly longer possibly. But, how does that make it different from true large chameleons. Many females that breed only have lifespans of a few years as well, and because care on may species isn't quite written in stone as of yet, there are plenty of large species that only have a 6 month lifespan in captivity.
Heres the counter point though. When given adequate enclosures, most species of pygmy chameleons that are available to us in Canada, are prolific breeders, thus ensuring that you have future offspring to keep on the lineage of your chameleons. Every once and a while all you have to do is add some new bloodlines when they become available to you.
If you plant this cage densely and provide plenty of filtration and drainage in the bottom, it seems like it would be ideal for pygmy chameleons. (And as a bonus, yes the glass front could be used in this application- though I don't see the glass front working well for larger chameleons.
As I said, I'm in Canada as well. I know your woes about our 0% humidity, as do some of the northern US state members. There are probably more practical ways to cage true chameleons here than what you seems to be leaning towards. If you have msn or contact me by email, I can show you some of my cages that fight the difficult weather here. You can search though my past posts for photos as well.
I found it a little odd that you said this... you said you originally built the tank for dart frogs, but were thinking chameleons instead, but the reason you switched WAS NOT because you thought they would be better suited for it. Now in response to where Heika said pygmies like it humid, but not constantly wet, you say that dart frogs are the same way. Why would you have built the cage with so much water influence if dart frogs are the same way?
Last point, I have never heard of either veileds or panthers living over water, or streams. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but as far as I have found there is only one recorded sighting of a chameleon IN water (See Necas book, Jewels) and it was not a species similar to either the veiled or panther.
i only said this because last time i saw them at a pet store they had died two days later. Maybe it was just a fluke though.
I have the water influence becaause i have a way to control humidity. Fans, fogger, misters are set on a controler to stabalize humidity and temp. I decided to switch this cage from dart frogs to chameleons because i figure this cage is to verticly oriented for frogs.
I dont recall mentioning this?
I am going to add you to MSN though if you dont mind.
Will Hayward
New Member
Pet stores are unreliable. They aren't equiped with proper habitats usually and dont provide all teh nessescary things that you would be offering them if prepared.
Ah, some insight into why the switch. Maybe so, but part of the whole dart frog keeping thing that is so appealing is, LIVE PLANTS. beautiful bromiliads, flowers, etc... all which can fill the vertical horizon. Also, there are species of frogs that should be able to cohabitate with darts and are from the same area in the wild that are mostly arboral living and breeding in the bowl flowers found on Amazon trees. I was lucky enough to see a tadpol spawning in a large flower that was in a tree up high when I traveled in northern Brazil.
The last point of mine, was just something directed towards the members talking about chameleons over water.
Ah, some insight into why the switch. Maybe so, but part of the whole dart frog keeping thing that is so appealing is, LIVE PLANTS. beautiful bromiliads, flowers, etc... all which can fill the vertical horizon. Also, there are species of frogs that should be able to cohabitate with darts and are from the same area in the wild that are mostly arboral living and breeding in the bowl flowers found on Amazon trees. I was lucky enough to see a tadpol spawning in a large flower that was in a tree up high when I traveled in northern Brazil.
The last point of mine, was just something directed towards the members talking about chameleons over water.
Just to throw in my .02...I am always nervous about mixing different species of reptiles and amphibians, even if they are from the same locale in the wild. But brevs and dart frogs are not found in the same areas (correct me if I'm wrong) and the poisonous nature of the frogs' skin would worry me. I know, some people manage to keep different critters together for a while, and it seems like a great idea, but our little enclosures are so small, compared to their natural habitat, they are forced into situations that wouldn't happen in nature.
I like your cage, Taro. What did you cover the great stuff with, before you painted it? I think it would be a great brev tank, as long as they couldn't fall/get into the pool from the waterfall. On my frogs' tanks, I have the pools pretty shallow, but the frogs LIKE to sit in it. Maybe you could have lots of pebbles in the catch pool, so it would only be 1/4" deep or so? Or you could cover the pool with screen...still get the waterfall effect, without worrying about them drowning (they're not the most graceful chams). The waterfall would be great for keeping the humidity up. What pump are you going to use?
BTW, not a commercial or anything...but I bought my CB brevs from FLChams a few months ago. I'm sure there are places you can find some, if you want.
I like your cage, Taro. What did you cover the great stuff with, before you painted it? I think it would be a great brev tank, as long as they couldn't fall/get into the pool from the waterfall. On my frogs' tanks, I have the pools pretty shallow, but the frogs LIKE to sit in it. Maybe you could have lots of pebbles in the catch pool, so it would only be 1/4" deep or so? Or you could cover the pool with screen...still get the waterfall effect, without worrying about them drowning (they're not the most graceful chams). The waterfall would be great for keeping the humidity up. What pump are you going to use?
BTW, not a commercial or anything...but I bought my CB brevs from FLChams a few months ago. I'm sure there are places you can find some, if you want.
Will Hayward
New Member
jleah, just a note to readers, Dart frogs are toxic from the food they consume in the wild. In captivity, these frogs are quite harmless- unless you are feeding them the ants they eat in the wild? The poisons have to enter the bloodline or be ingested. Simple skin contact cannot pass the poison. ---but all of this is off topic, as we are all in agreeance that pygmy chameleons do not seem pleased to share their cages with other species of their kind, nor other reptiles amphibians.
Also, because the poster is in another country, shipping from abroad is very complicated and doesn't often happen.
Also, because the poster is in another country, shipping from abroad is very complicated and doesn't often happen.
Will, thanks for the info on the dart frogs...I never knew that! I knew other critters got their poisons from their diet, but I never thought about the dart frogs. So does that cross over to my Cynops orientalis...is he not toxic, either, since he only gets frozen bloodworms and mysis? (not that I'm planning to eat him....or even handle him much...)
Hmmm, wasn't taking the customs thing into account, either. I should remember...took me 7 months to get a tropical pitcher shipped from Canada...and that's a plant!
Hmmm, wasn't taking the customs thing into account, either. I should remember...took me 7 months to get a tropical pitcher shipped from Canada...and that's a plant!
I am at a toss up between veiled and panther. It may come down to avilablility. I would love either. My goal is to find a nice healthy non baby chameleon. My tank is to large for a baby to start off in... but if i do have to start with a baby i have a smaller screen cage to use until it gets older.
scooter4n
Established Member
you can always put separator in your cage, to divide cage x2 or something for few months.
Will Hayward
New Member
even with a divider the cage will be 2x2x4.
FaunaBgirl
New Member
I've noticed that most the people on here are very sincere about wanting to do the best for their little chams. What's that about the best of intensions? I am thankful, because while I'm usually a very successful person at all things I take on, I was found to be "overdoing it." Without this forum, and the tried and true ways for me to rely on, I could have spent my cham's life before it was due. So thank you Brad and the others that came to my cham's rescue ... from my best of intentions.
