New Chameleon

[maryndavid]

So, the other day our Groot died. :-( Imbreeding had a part to play in his untimely death along with the vets around here not accepting reptiles as patients due to them not "specializing" in them... So - having his 36x24x36 open air terrarium fully equipped with a repti fogger, all the lighting needed to raise a chameleon along with a slew of live plants and vines... Anyways, not wanting to get rid of all that we decided to get another veiled chameleon we named Apollo. (I call him Chlem.) SO... we bring him home and notice this small ripple under his skin on the upper part of his ribs. I'm going to upload a picture to see what you guys think. We just got this little guy from PetCo. Any ideas? Should we be worried? If better pics are needed we can get some. I was google-ing worms under skin in Chams like him and I didn't find anything like this. We just don't want him going so quickly after getting attached to him, like Groot. If this guy dies we will probably stay away from them forever. Which is sad because not only do we love them but our 5 children do as well and they would be devastated.

 

[jannb]

I think he should see a vet for a check up and possible an x-ray. Since you don't have a vet why in the world would you get another chameleon? You just let one die because you said there was no vet. These animals are constanlly in need of a vet to keep them healthy. I truly love these little animals and it really upsets me when people get them and can not properly take care of them. Proper care includes vet visits and regular fecals.

Also before you put another chameleon in Groot's enclosure everything should have been thourghly cleaned. I would buy new plants and vines and not take any chance a a new chameleon catching what Groot had.

 

[maryndavid]

He didn't have anything - he was inbred which caused health issues. We will go to New York to have him looked at, which isn't a problem, but as far as the issue Groot had, it wasn't contagious.

 

[jannb]

Did Groot have regular fecals? If he didn't then you have no idea what all he had besides being in bred and how do you know he was inbred? I would properly clean any cage before putting a new or different chameleon in it. It's just good practice.

 

[maryndavid]

Yes he was regular. He was not my first reptile I have had many in the past from iguana's to skinks. And this isn't about groot so unless you have any idea about the question that was asked i am not trying to sound mean or anything just i know what was wrong with him did some looking up and the reptile store we got him from online groot that is. Lied or at least their breeder did they have had a lot of complaints i guess from the batch Groot came from. But anyways these bumps just dont seem right not sure if he is just deformed i mean he is a petco reptile they are kinda hit or miss. It's just like 5 bumps right where his ribs start it doesn't seem to be bothering him hes breathing fine eating fine just wondering if we should be concerned that is all it doesn't look like worms under the skin how ever they did have him in with 3 others 2 males one female in a small glass tank with substrate and no mist/fogger and that's the main reason i had to get him was they had them in poor conditions. with no climbing room nothing And the petco here likes to try to hide the fact that if no one buys the reptiles after a point in time they just throw them out in the dumpster and seance they aren't a cat or a dog they can get away with it kinda sad really.

 

[fluxlizard]

The pic is a little bleary, but that looks to me like it is probably lack of calcium in your chameleon when it is growing, and would have to do with diet or supplementation or lighting, not inbreeding.

In the mid 90s, this was seen a lot, as uvb lighting wasn't so great yet, and not all brands of calcium with d3 provided enough d3 for the speed that people grew their veileds (very fast in those days- adult size in 3-4 months of age). The ribs crack as the calcium content is lacking, and then they heal looking like your photos.

 

[maryndavid]

See that's what i was thinking as well cause petco here doesn't really take the right care of most of their reptiles. wondering if he will be ok with it or not like i said he seems to be eating fine and drinking fine as of now. i wasn't saying Apollo was inbred Groot for sure was though.

 

[fluxlizard]

If his circumstances are corrected, he will probably do fine, but the malformation will never go away- he will always look like that.

Our petcos around here are terrible for chameleons also. I saw some here just the other day. One really thick reptivine near the rear wall of the enclosure, repti-bark substrate that was bone dry and a plastic plant stuck to the back wall- otherwise the whole thing was empty. All 3 veileds inside (trying to hide together on the single too thick vine against the back wall) had MBD of varying intensity from mild to moderate. Heat was inadequate also.

 

[maryndavid]

Ya the ones here are really bad as well however i did just call them. And they said that they would cover Apollo for 6 months. And that i can bring him in for a Free vet visit they would just have to set it up and hold him for 72 hours. Witch i mean is great on their i will give them that i Just hope the little guy will be ok so fare he has the same markings Groot did and when i put my hand in the small tank they had him in with the 3 others hes the only one that came right to me. And i don't think Groot would have wanted us to just give up on Apollo seance Groot was named after the comics/movie And just they way Groot was he he loved our tree frogs and got along great with our cat saser. Zer our notheast tree frog and him used to sleep side by side and play together never thought i would see a frog and a cham get along with out the cham trying to eat the frog but Groot loved Zer and Zer got extremely depressed when Groot passed infect when we took Groot out of his and Zers home to try to help him. Zer was right there by his side the hole time.

 

[Carlton]

If his circumstances are corrected, he will probably do fine, but the malformation will never go away- he will always look like that.

And, the sad thing is, by buying your new cham from this chain YOU have "rewarded" them for carrying unhealthy animals they get from equally careless breeders. IMHO this was just as bad as the poor care or inbreeding Groot's breeder is guilty of. Do you realize that something like 70% of all pet shop animal purchases are made out of PITY for the way the shop is treating the animals? Think about that!

I know you don't want to see it this way, but supporting a store that sells unhealthy animals as well as taking on one with health issues when you don't have a vet who will bother to treat him correctly isn't being very responsible. I hope they at least discounted the price! Hopefully for this little guy he will do OK with correct care and that he doesn't end up needing vet care. However, this damage is a sign that he may have other problems...then what will you do when you need that vet after all?

This whole story just upsets me. No lessons are being learned by anyone...the breeders, the store, or the buyers.

 

[maryndavid]

Well in a way they are paying for their poor care of them they will be shipping to the vet in ny witch will cost them min of 50 dollors plus they will be holding him for 72 hours witch then they will be supplying food for that time and they have to set up a proper enclosure for him do to my request and if anything does happen to him they will not only cover him for the 6 months but will replaces him all and all they will be having to spend the 70 i paid for him plus the vet bill and what ever the vet tells them to do so i guess in some way they are paying for what they did and as of now i am in contacted with a vet in ny that will do a home visit one finally got back to us that will treat/look at Apollo anytime we need him to

 

[Carlton]

And just they way Groot was he he loved our tree frogs and got along great with our cat saser. Zer our notheast tree frog and him used to sleep side by side and play together never thought i would see a frog and a cham get along with out the cham trying to eat the frog but Groot loved Zer and Zer got extremely depressed when Groot passed infect when we took Groot out of his and Zers home to try to help him. Zer was right there by his side the hole time.

So you were keeping frogs and your cham in the same cage? Sorry, you are misinterpreting your frog and your cham's behaviors. You'll never know if one animal actually contributed to the other's health problems. Chams are solitary and the frogs may have created constant stress or frustration for a veiled. I hope your new cham isn't going to share the same setup with your frogs. I very much doubt any of these animals "loved" each other. That is your wishful thinking.

 

[ZiggyStardust]

Yes he was regular.

Maryndavid - When Jann was asking about regular fecals, she did not mean did your last chameleon poop regularly - what she meant was had you ever had him tested for parasites. If not, then it could well have been a parasite infestation that caused him to die and not from a genetic problem.

 

[ZiggyStardust]

So you were keeping frogs and your cham in the same cage? Sorry, you are misinterpreting your frog and your cham's behaviors. You'll never know if one animal actually contributed to the other's health problems. Chams are solitary and the frogs may have created constant stress or frustration for a veiled. I hope your new cham isn't going to share the same setup with your frogs. I very much doubt any of these animals "loved" each other. That is your wishful thinking.

My thoughts mirror this. If you are going to make a go of keeping chameleons Maryndavid, then my sincere advice is to do some thorough research by reading the wealth of information on this forum. There are a lot of extremely knowledgeable people here who have been successfully keeping chameleons for many years, so please take the time to read the care sheets that are available.

Chameleons are wonderfully unique creatures and give owners joy every day in raising and keeping them successfully, but they are NOT "easy" in the way that a lot of people think. They are solitary, shy and often fragile and to keep them happy and healthy takes a lot of time and effort. They aren't the sort of creatures that will thrive with the minimum of care.

 

[maryndavid]

Zer never stress Groot out at all he never turned dark as in him feeling threatened infect he would always go bright green when him and zer were together i know a lot of ppl say yes they cant be in a habitat with other animals BUT also if the habitat was big enough it would be fine Groot and zer had plenty of room to have their own space And seance Groot and Zer where babys pretty much at the same time we got them they Grew up with each other different types of animals get along all the time infect if you look around there are plenty of examples back in the day had a iguana and a box turtle that got along great when the iguana got to big for the cage i had her in and i moved her to a new much bigger one she wouldnt eat or drink for a while at first i was like ok shes just stressed from moving from one place to a newer one i was wrong as soon as i put lucky the turtle back in with her she started eating again and drinking sooooo yaaa

 

[ZiggyStardust]

Zer never stress Groot out at all he never turned dark as in him feeling threatened infect he would always go bright green when him and zer were together i know a lot of ppl say yes they cant be in a habitat with other animals BUT also if the habitat was big enough it would be fine Groot and zer had plenty of room to have their own space And seance Groot and Zer where babys pretty much at the same time we got them they Grew up with each other different types of animals get along all the time infect if you look around there are plenty of examples back in the day had a iguana and a box turtle that got along great when the iguana got to big for the cage i had her in and i moved her to a new much bigger one she wouldnt eat or drink for a while at first i was like ok shes just stressed from moving from one place to a newer one i was wrong as soon as i put lucky the turtle back in with her she started eating again and drinking sooooo yaaa

Bright colours can be a sign of stress.

It is entirely your call, of course, not to follow the advice of experienced keepers on here, but all people are doing are trying to help.

It is a fact that chameleons thrive best being kept alone - they may "tolerate" another reptile, but in my honest opinion, from what I have read, taken in and learnt from my own experiences and taking advice from my breeder that a chameleon will never truly thrive being kept with any other animal.

 

[maryndavid]

This is the Mary part of Mary and Dave. We were told by the place online we got our Chameleon that it will be fine to have the tree frogs in the same terrarium. That they would not harm him or him them. He slept with the frogs, which we thought was strange since they're nocturnal. He was never dark in color around them, and **** - the crawled on them like they were stumps most of the time during the day when they were asleep. They caused him no stress what so ever. And when one of our friends came over (who also has chameleons) she said she never saw one with such character. All of them - like people - are different. He LOVED to be handled. He was the brightest colors when he was crawling on one of us or on one of our heads. He wouldn't drink unless we were holding him. We hand-fed him super worms and meal-worms daily. He was like a little puppy. If one of us was sitting beside his terrarium he would come over on a vine and crawl up the cage until we noticed him and took him out. When the frogs would be hiding in the dirt of the plant pots then come out he would go over to them and either stand on or beside them. The only time he was darker in color was when he was shedding. (He shed 3x in 2 months) then after that he was fine. Telling us that because we have frogs in our cage or anything like that is attributed to why he died so suddenly is rude. We knew what to do. We googled the **** out of owning one, yes his poop was checked for parasites, no he wasn't too stressed out, and the reason we know it was inbreeding is because 2 others who got one from the same breeder within a few days of ours died a week or so before he did. Their vets said the cause of death was inbreeding, other than that he was in perfect health. The chameleon we have now has visible defects. We are getting it taken care of. We buy animals from petco because calling animal cruelty hotlines doesn't work - they won't do a damn thing about it - so we see it as saving their lives. We didn't get Groot from petco - we got him online, he was sent to us the next day and we got him the day after that. The way he arrived was horrible and we called the company and complained. I had someone look at him at our house and she said he looked great. Having had chameleons for 20 years she knows what she's talking about. And here's food for thought, don't insinuate that we are irresponsible people with our pets because we are not; unless you know everything we do it's not a wise idea. Tips and hints are helpful. Being a rude *** is not.

 

[maryndavid]

In Groot when he became darker he was stressed out. You could tell by the way he carried himself and hissed at everything. He only did that when he was shedding. The brighter he was the happier he was. He was an amazingly unique animal.

 

[ZiggyStardust]

This is the Mary part of Mary and Dave. We were told by the place online we got our Chameleon that it will be fine to have the tree frogs in the same terrarium. That they would not harm him or him them. He slept with the frogs, which we thought was strange since they're nocturnal. He was never dark in color around them, and **** - the crawled on them like they were stumps most of the time during the day when they were asleep. They caused him no stress what so ever. And when one of our friends came over (who also has chameleons) she said she never saw one with such character. All of them - like people - are different. He LOVED to be handled. He was the brightest colors when he was crawling on one of us or on one of our heads. He wouldn't drink unless we were holding him. We hand-fed him super worms and meal-worms daily. He was like a little puppy. If one of us was sitting beside his terrarium he would come over on a vine and crawl up the cage until we noticed him and took him out. When the frogs would be hiding in the dirt of the plant pots then come out he would go over to them and either stand on or beside them. The only time he was darker in color was when he was shedding. (He shed 3x in 2 months) then after that he was fine. Telling us that because we have frogs in our cage or anything like that is attributed to why he died so suddenly is rude. We knew what to do. We googled the **** out of owning one, yes his poop was checked for parasites, no he wasn't too stressed out, and the reason we know it was inbreeding is because 2 others who got one from the same breeder within a few days of ours died a week or so before he did. Their vets said the cause of death was inbreeding, other than that he was in perfect health. The chameleon we have now has visible defects. We are getting it taken care of. We buy animals from petco because calling animal cruelty hotlines doesn't work - they won't do a damn thing about it - so we see it as saving their lives. We didn't get Groot from petco - we got him online, he was sent to us the next day and we got him the day after that. The way he arrived was horrible and we called the company and complained. I had someone look at him at our house and she said he looked great. Having had chameleons for 20 years she knows what she's talking about. And here's food for thought, don't insinuate that we are irresponsible people with our pets because we are not; unless you know everything we do it's not a wise idea. Tips and hints are helpful. Being a rude *** is not.

I'm sorry, but from what I can see, the only one being rude here is you. There is no need to swear at people - you came on here asking for advice and when this was given to you, you have become defensive and abusive.

I, and others a hell of a lot more experienced than me have tried to help you - but if this is your attitude then that's fine.

Good luck for the future.

 

[maryndavid]

I said "***". We came on here looking for advice but instead we are being criticized for not doing things in the way 'you' do them. Although I am a realist, I also try to look at every perspective to see if maybe I'm wrong. But for people to assume that we are doing or did something wrong with Groot or Apollo without basic understanding of what the **** I said (inbreeding) is just insanity. No. I'm going to monitor my language. The words I use are sentence enhancers, words to show passion for what the **** it is that I'm saying when saying it normally doesn't ******* WORK!