New Cham owner. Black outline on veil.

[Pitcard]

I tend to agree with JoeVet. If it's hard to find a proper cage in your area, imagine how difficult it might be to find care? And even if you do, you'll pay exponentially more than he will ever be worth (monetarily speaking) and possibly get improper care from an inexperienced vet. It's time to really think about the options. And at least try to contact PetSmart, on a local and corporate level. Good luck.

 

[MamatoElvis]

I would still talk to someone at petsmart. It's very obvious from the picture of when you first got him that he already had MBD. It's possible you could get an a refund an still keep your Cham. I'd try if I were you. It's also possible if you put up a big enough stink in the middle of their store that you could get some veterinarian bills covered.
If you decide to keep him, which it sound like you are, please fill out the how to ask for help section. It will be really important moving forward that you get all the correct information on how to care for your little guy. From your first post it sounds as if you were given a lot of misinformation on how to care for a Cham. No worries though, you are in the right place. In order f or your Cham to improve you will need to relearn everything you already thought you knew. Clear you mind and start fresh. Read the veiled care sheet and follow that to the letter. Also member jannb has a blog for new keepers that would be helpful. If I wasn't so technically disinclined I would know how to post a link, but I don't. I'm hoping someone else will. If the weather is warm where you are I'd try to get him out for some real sunshine. The vet asap but you still will need to correct a whole bunch of care issues for him to get better. Study up this weekend while you are waiting for the vet.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I got him at petsmart and I had no idea about MBD at the time. They have a 14 day return policy but it's been about 3 weeks and they will not take him back. I honestly don't care about the money that was spent or will be spent. I care about him getting back to stable condition.

That's a great attitude to have.

Basically what seems to have happened is that he has not been able to lay down bone as quickly as it has been reabsorbed. Most people think that bone is static, but it is constantly being changed. Old bone is broken down and reabsorbed and new bone is laid down. Ideally, everything is in equilibrium and the old bone absorbed is equivalent to the new bone, but in some bone disease processes, the old bone is reabsorbed faster than the new bone is laid down. Metabolic bone disease is one such disease. So is osteoporosis.

You will need to get him more calcium plus boost his ability to absorb and metabolize that calcium. Often metabolic bone disease is caused by the body not being able to absorb enough calcium, either because not enough calcium is available or because the body can't metabolize it due to lack of Vitamin D3.

A vet needs to help you manage this. The vet will probably give your chameleon an injection (or series of injections) of calcium and prescribe oral calcium. The vet might also do x-rays to determine just how extensive the demineralization of the skeleton is and to find out just how many bones are broken. Treatment is not inexpensive. You might speak to your vet about not doing x-rays to cut the costs. The breaks/deviations to his bones are obvious--and an x-ray is not really going to tell you all that much more unless his bone breaks are not the result of metabolic disease.

I think you should approach PetSmart to try to get them to pay for the treatment. You have pictures of the animal right after you got him that clearly show the deviation to his left front leg. Maybe they will pick up the costs of the vet visit and the initial calcium treatment.

Just remember, if your chameleon has metabolic bone disease they are incredibly fragile. Their bones are very, very brittle. Just because it is easy to break bones does not mean they are any less painful.

My understanding is that veileds are now hatching with MBD already in progress because their mother's and their grandmother's poor nutrition is finally catching up with the baby right in the egg.

Good luck with him. Keep us posted.

 

[BeatTheBeat]

UPDATE: We approached petsmart and the only thing they will do is either replace him with a new one (which I dknt really want a new one) or take him into their vet care and if he gets better, we can buy him back. I have ordered some oral calcium and I'm helping him get comfy right now. My mother tends to think its not really worth all the effort but I agree to disagree. Thank you guys for all the help. If you have anymore tips, please feel free to give me them since I'm planning on keeping him.

 

[JoeVet]

What calcium did you order? There are some liquid calcium for reptiles which is total garbage. Also he should be on higher than normal Vitamin D3. Vitamin A also contributes to bone health so you may want to use an all inclusive vitamin supplement like Repashy Miner-all. Outdoor sunlight exposure is the best way to regulate D3 so bringing him out for an hour a day will help. I would also recommend you fill in the https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and send a photo of your setup. Let forum members critique your setup. Its a great way to correct any mistakes and improve conditions for a recovery.

 

[Gumball Machine]

It sure looks like you're getting a bit of a direction from everyone's feedback. I hope to hear about how he is recovering and some updated photos of him and his enclosure. He'll need a larger screen cage which you can order easily online, you don't need to visit a pet store in order to get the right supplies and food to give him a wonderful home. You can even order your crickets in bulk offline but definitely read up on how to care for crickets so they don't die off, especially if you get them bulk. Definitely read up on how you should set up his enclosure which you can find easily on here. It looks like you have a rock bowl in there... is it filled with water? They don't drink standing water. It should be dripped via a dripper & misting system (or a spray bottle multiple times a day for 3 mins each time... preferably whenever you see it dried up.. it's the only thing I've noticed that hasn't been mentioned already... granted, you need to look up adult male veiled husbandry on here and fix everything). Good luck with him

 

[BeatTheBeat]

I ordered flukers. And the day I got him, the pet store didn't have misters so I'm just spraying him constantly. The vet we were planning on going to called and said that they weren't experienced with chameleons so I don't know the extent of the disease at the moment but it is MBD. What else should I get to treat the disease?

 

[BeatTheBeat]

And yes the bowl of full of water. I change it every day because he loves to sit in it and get it all dirty lol

 

[MissLissa]

Well, first you should fill out the "how to ask for help" form.

Second, I'm not sure how much use a bowl of water will be to your chameleon- they do not drink static water, only moving droplets of water like from a sprayer or mister (think: rain). Stagnant bowls of water can get contaminated with fecal matter and quickly become a breeding ground for bacteria, which can make a chameleon sick even when it was originally healthy. If he has multiple fractures and MBD, he could also have an even more increased risk for secondary bacterial and fungal infections.

Third, get him to the vet ASAP, and be ready for an expensive journey and a long haul with no guarantee of success or rehabilitation.

 

[Pitcard]

Any updates on the little guy??

Not questioning your methods MissLisa, but all of my chams drink from standing water glasses as well as droplets. It can be done!

 

[BeatTheBeat]

He's acting a lot better. He's climbing more and all around acting healthier. The vet cancelled the appointment so I have a new one on Monday. I think my little guy is going to be ok

 

[Carlton]

He's acting a lot better. He's climbing more and all around acting healthier. The vet cancelled the appointment so I have a new one on Monday. I think my little guy is going to be ok

Kudos to you for hanging on with your cham! The sad thing is that PetStupid continues to sell sick animals when preventing this problem is so basic. Their attitude about the pets they sell is sickening. All their glossy advertising rants about how much they care about pet health but the reality is their corporate attitude is inhumane.

Another thing you can do to send them a clear concise message about all this is to boycott the store ENTIRELY! Do not buy ANYTHING from them again...no food, supplies, treats, etc. And, send them a letter explaining why. Send copies of this letter to your local animal control/humane society and any corporate headquarters address you can get. If you are on social media, broadcast your pics of him around and give the name of the store you got him at along with the diagnosis.

 

[JoeVet]

He's acting a lot better. He's climbing more and all around acting healthier. The vet cancelled the appointment so I have a new one on Monday. I think my little guy is going to be ok

That is encouraging. Many of these stories don't end well. Its good to here when they do. Remember that this is going to be a long slow process. He will be fragile for many months so not much handling and be careful when you do. Let us know what the vet says.

 

[BeatTheBeat]

UPDATE: Vet says he has MBD. He is doing fantastic though. He's climbing and acting great. He's ok two different medications one being calcium glubonate. He is shedding right now and I'm not sure if he's supposed to be shedding right now. I have another appointment next week with the vet for more X-rays and treatment. Thank you everyone for your help. I've been boycotting petstupid because their store manager called to be a major d-bag and continued to say that my Cham wasn't showing symptoms in store even though I have picture proof. I had to explain to him what MBD was xD. I feel so terrible for those animals. I'll continue to boycott. Thank you guys though. I'll post more updates soon.

 

[aeolis23]

"Woooooow : o : ( " That was my first reaction when I opened the first photo you posted of your darling... I don't know much about chameleon illnesses, but what I do know is that an alarm bell instantly starts ringing when seeing his front leg...

I truely hope people who intent to buy their first chameleon see this post and learn from it. I don't think I would have known with my first cham too, but by now, i've already seen soooooo many cases of MBD pass by online that I wouldn't doubt for even a second anymore when seeing these pictures.

I'm happy you didn't just bring him back to the shop, because in my opinion you made a decision to buy one, so you should take care of him with all your heart, no matter what.... Only thing you should do is boycot the shop like crazy, for the sake of all the other chams who end up there...

Maybe you could blame yourself for not knowing before, but you already showed me you are the right kind of chameleon keeper. So keep going the way you do now.

I totally agree with MamatoElvis: learn from you mistake and start over. Detailed research, ask questions on the forum and start over with the cages. If you can't find a terrarium nearby, then build one yourself. It's really not difficult for screen cages (which is best for a veiled anyway).

Eventhough I'm from Belgium, I know it's a HUGE problem with these shops and there are lots of boycot project running against this chain...

Lots of love from my side, and I'll burn a candle for him to get better soon. Please, post some pictures of him every now and then, so we can follow his progress and new people can continue to be warned by getting this post back to the top of the homepage list

 

[MamatoElvis]

I'm so glad to hear he's doing better. Kudos to you for not just returning him. He can still have a full and happy life with the correct care you are now able to give. A new Petco was just built near me. I couldn't help myself, I had to check if they brought in chameleons. They did. They have about 6 baby Chams in an enclosure that is so poorly set up its laughable. I was really happy to see that they had a dripper set up. Of course it just dripped straight into a water dish. Didn't hit any leaves on the way down. The water dish was also big enough that the tiny baby chams would have to crawl into the inch plus deep water to get underneath it to drink. Water also had poop in it. I didn't buy anything but it was tempting to scoop up all those babies since I knew they had only had them a week.

 

[ThomasCrown]

After reading these pages, I took a trip down to my local petsmart. Only to find one juvenile veiled chameleon female with MBD. I was so enraged by the brush off I got from the store manager I took it to social media