New 8mo Jacksons Cham - Worry or Wait?

[Lathis]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Jackson's Chameleon, 7-8 months old, vivid green with some blue and never dark brown, very active and alert, very affectionate (wants to be held), eyes are clear, cloaca is clear, toes/feet look good, excellent grip (death grip!), plump but not fat/swollen, good drinker, very mellow personality. I call him Ferdinand, but he never comes when I call

Handling - Never unless he grabs me

Feeding - Crickets (gut loaded on collard greens, carrots, apples, strawberries plus Zilla Gut-Load with Ca), Waxworms (supposed to be treats)

Supplements - ReptoCal with Ca and D3 (tri-weekly need to get Ca only) and Rep-Cal Hertivite with Beta Carotine (monthly) Note: Cham has not eaten any dusted feeders offered

Watering - Tap water (local utilities use lower chlorine content and is not fluoridated), have constant drip available and mist 2-3 times daily, he is a good drinker and often sits under the

Fecal Description - Not tested yet, droppings are dark brown/slightly off white and moist

History - Was purchased by someone else (original owner) from a breeder with a female, female died of dehydration, I adopted him from original owner. Original owner never set up a proper enclosure and had him living in a 5-gal bucket. His health seemed fine and he was very perky, so I adopted him two weeks ago today.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Aluminum screen enclosure (LLLReptile), 24x24x48, but since he's small, I have lifted the bottom to make it 24X24X30.

Lighting - Zoo Med 18" Repti Sun 5.0 UVB bulbs and 15 watt mini-halogen basking lamp

Temperature - Ambient temp 68-75°F, basking spot 86°F, fixed digital thermometer to monitor basking area

Humidity - Humidifier running almost 24/7; 40% RH at top of enclosure; 60% at bottom (Midwest winters are terribly dry), fixed digital hygrometer to monitor RH

Plants - Live plants, purchase by scientific names: Umbrella plants (Schefflera arboricola), Golden pothos (Scindapsus aureus); Mamey croton (Codiaeum variegatum); Bromeliad flower (Guzmania berteroniana). Artificial climbing vines (Exo-Terra Jungle Vine small). Sand blasted grape vine stick (large). Everything was washed well before going into his enclosure.

Placement - Corner of dining/living room. Low traffic within 10-feet of cage and we are out most of the day. Near sliding glass door but not directly adjacent. Closest floor register has been closed.

Location - Missouri (where temps range from 10s in the winter to 110s in the summer, we're currently ranging 25-50°F for February/March 2013), humidity is <10% RH outside, 30%RH inside and we run a lot of humidifiers in the house anyway. Ambient house temps currently are 68-75°F.

Experience: This is my first chameleon. I did not go into this blind - I did a ton of research, wanted to make sure I would meet all his needs. If I'm doing something wrong, I WANT TO KNOW ASAP.

Current Problem - As started above, this is my first cham and I just got his two weeks ago. He seems to be in good health, he's perky, drinks well and always has access to water. He likes to sit under his dripper and doesn't spend that much time basking. He's very active, climbs all over exploring. He's not afraid of people and always wants to grab onto your hands (or your hair!) when you are in the cage and perch on your shoulder. I don't engage him, but if he grabs on, I sit quiet until he's bored with me and climbs down my arm back onto the vine.

My biggest concern is his eating...or lack of it. First day I had him, he drank a TON of water straight from the spray bottle. I kept him well misted and watered him every few hours for two solid days. He also ate two crickets and four waxworms from tweezers/hands. I know moving can be stressful on any animal especially a cham, so I was very pleased. I got his enclosure finally done about 3 days ago - so things have still been changing for him in the last few days.

Since that first day, he hasn't shown any interest in food. Crickets don't even catch his attention, neither in a cup nor free-range; he has eaten 2 waxworms in the last 5 days and didn't even seem all that excited about them. I keep offering waxworms b/c they are lizard candy...I just want him to eat something/anything! He isn't skinny and does not look like he's lost any weight. I want to weigh him daily, but I don't want to stress him.

I have not yet taken him in to a vet for a wellness checkup/fecal culture because I wanted to let him settle and de-stress from the move. I am looking for advice from fellow Jackson's owners: WORRY (and take him to the vet) or WAIT (and give him time to get settled)?

When people say that Chameleons are high stress animals... I thought the meant the lizards! Thanks in advance.

 

[pepezkakap]

From what I have been told is that:
1. Cham needs his space for a moment to acclimate to the new enclosure
2. He can go without food or minimum food for few days, the most important thing is that keep heem hydrated
3. If he's active and all set ups are correct then just wait till he's hungry on his own and start eating Is yours pooping or urate?

But, it's just me. You can wait for other to share theird thoughts. Honestly, I have the same concern as yours regarding his appetite that seems lol. Until now, I am still worried of him. I won't suggest daily weighing as it's not telling you a lot. Do weekly at least. I did mine twice already and between that one week scaling he showed no increase in weigh. I am so concern of his weight now

 

[leedragon]

try flies, as I am concern mountain species love flying insekts and white crawling larv

 

[mcbdz]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Sounds like you are giving him a great home. Mostly I would let him acclimate awhile longer. As long as you are finding poops then he is eating. Very important though: STOP FEEDING WAX WORMS. The number one cause of food strikes and if he's only eating a little then you want what he eats to count. Make sure his feeders are well gut loaded and dust lightly. Don't make little ghosts.LOL I would also suggest you start checking into more variety of feeder. Try silk worms, horn worms, phenix worms and some flies. There are many more.
Good luck and keep us posted. OH Yeah, we love pics.

 

[Lathis]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Waxworms are officially off the menu. I was definitely over dusting the crickets, too. I'm looking for a local source of silkworms/hornworms/flies. I may need to call the herp vet and ask for advise on that.

I have not seen droppings in the last 3 days, but he hasn't eaten enough to make a proper dropping.

One thing that concerns me is that he sits almost all day directly under his dripper and never dries off. I don't want to deprive him of water but I am concerned about skin irritation/infections from being wet. A legitimate concern? Or nothing to worry about?

I was thinking also about raising his ambient temp to 75 F. He was much more active before his ambient temp dropped to 70 F a few days ago. Might also give his system a kick start if he's feeling off?

He still looks fine, good color and clear eyes/nose/vent. I've attached some pics from when I first got him and also from today.

Sheesh, I'm a wreck over all this.

 

[pepezkakap]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Waxworms are officially off the menu. I was definitely over dusting the crickets, too. I'm looking for a local source of silkworms/hornworms/flies. I may need to call the herp vet and ask for advise on that.

I have not seen droppings in the last 3 days, but he hasn't eaten enough to make a proper dropping.

One thing that concerns me is that he sits almost all day directly under his dripper and never dries off. I don't want to deprive him of water but I am concerned about skin irritation/infections from being wet. A legitimate concern? Or nothing to worry about?

I was thinking also about raising his ambient temp to 75 F. He was much more active before his ambient temp dropped to 70 F a few days ago. Might also give his system a kick start if he's feeling off?

He still looks fine, good color and clear eyes/nose/vent. I've attached some pics from when I first got him and also from today.

Sheesh, I'm a wreck over all this.

Please try light dust from now on
I realize that jacksoni requires a more humid area with lower temperature. I might be wrong but I think you should ask around to confirm this. Again, from what I know Jackson requires overall lower temp than veiled and panther do.

 

[Lathis]

Update

Ferdinand was interested in the crickets I put in his cage this morning! He didn't eat any, but he was definitely interested. That's an improvement over past days.

Thanks for everyone's advice so far, and hopefully, this is a step in a positive direction.

 

[Solid Snake]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Jackson's Chameleon, 7-8 months old, vivid green with some blue and never dark brown, very active and alert, very affectionate (wants to be held), eyes are clear, cloaca is clear, toes/feet look good, excellent grip (death grip!), plump but not fat/swollen, good drinker, very mellow personality. I call him Ferdinand, but he never comes when I call

Handling - Never unless he grabs me

Feeding - Crickets (gut loaded on collard greens, carrots, apples, strawberries plus Zilla Gut-Load with Ca), Waxworms (supposed to be treats)

Id ditch the zilla, and get some butternut squash in there.
What kind of greens? Collard and turnip are good.

Supplements - ReptoCal with Ca and D3 (tri-weekly need to get Ca only) and Rep-Cal Hertivite with Beta Carotine (monthly) Note: Cham has not eaten any dusted feeders offered

D3 should be given only once every 6 weeks, if at all with this species.
They can OD on it fast.
Stop all d3 for at least a month.
D3 supplement builds up in their system, until they use it up.
D3 acquired from UVB cannot be ODed on, and with be created as needed, so is much healthier for the animal.

An EXTREMELY light dusting of plain phosphorous free calcium on all/most feeders is ideal. In my opinion.

The cal/phos ratio needs to be at 2:1, most feeders will be about the opposite (1:2) so a light dusting brings this in to balance. The animal needs the proper ratio, in order to utilize the calcium it intakes, this is why it is important.


Watering - Tap water (local utilities use lower chlorine content and is not fluoridated), have constant drip available and mist 2-3 times daily, he is a good drinker and often sits under the

2-3 times for how long?
I would recommend at least 4 mistings a day, maybe up to 6.

Most should last for 3-5 min. with one or two mistings lasting for 10-15 min.

A constant drip throughout the day is desirable as well.


Fecal Description - Not tested yet, droppings are dark brown/slightly off white and moist

History - Was purchased by someone else (original owner) from a breeder with a female, female died of dehydration, I adopted him from original owner. Original owner never set up a proper enclosure and had him living in a 5-gal bucket. His health seemed fine and he was very perky, so I adopted him two weeks ago today.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Aluminum screen enclosure (LLLReptile), 24x24x48, but since he's small, I have lifted the bottom to make it 24X24X30.

Hes pretty much full grown by the looks of him, and no matter what size he is, he will appreciate more space. So I would recommend letting him have the whole cage.


Lighting - Zoo Med 18" Repti Sun 5.0 UVB bulbs and 15 watt mini-halogen basking lamp



Temperature - Ambient temp 68-75°F, basking spot 86°F, fixed digital thermometer to monitor basking area

Humidity - Humidifier running almost 24/7; 40% RH at top of enclosure; 60% at bottom (Midwest winters are terribly dry), fixed digital hygrometer to monitor RH

Plants - Live plants, purchase by scientific names: Umbrella plants (Schefflera arboricola), Golden pothos (Scindapsus aureus); Mamey croton (Codiaeum variegatum); Bromeliad flower (Guzmania berteroniana). Artificial climbing vines (Exo-Terra Jungle Vine small). Sand blasted grape vine stick (large). Everything was washed well before going into his enclosure.

Placement - Corner of dining/living room. Low traffic within 10-feet of cage and we are out most of the day. Near sliding glass door but not directly adjacent. Closest floor register has been closed.

Location - Missouri (where temps range from 10s in the winter to 110s in the summer, we're currently ranging 25-50°F for February/March 2013), humidity is <10% RH outside, 30%RH inside and we run a lot of humidifiers in the house anyway. Ambient house temps currently are 68-75°F.

Experience: This is my first chameleon. I did not go into this blind - I did a ton of research, wanted to make sure I would meet all his needs. If I'm doing something wrong, I WANT TO KNOW ASAP.

Current Problem - As started above, this is my first cham and I just got his two weeks ago. He seems to be in good health, he's perky, drinks well and always has access to water. He likes to sit under his dripper and doesn't spend that much time basking. He's very active, climbs all over exploring. He's not afraid of people and always wants to grab onto your hands (or your hair!) when you are in the cage and perch on your shoulder. I don't engage him, but if he grabs on, I sit quiet until he's bored with me and climbs down my arm back onto the vine.

My biggest concern is his eating...or lack of it. First day I had him, he drank a TON of water straight from the spray bottle. I kept him well misted and watered him every few hours for two solid days. He also ate two crickets and four waxworms from tweezers/hands. I know moving can be stressful on any animal especially a cham, so I was very pleased. I got his enclosure finally done about 3 days ago - so things have still been changing for him in the last few days.

Since that first day, he hasn't shown any interest in food. Crickets don't even catch his attention, neither in a cup nor free-range; he has eaten 2 waxworms in the last 5 days and didn't even seem all that excited about them. I keep offering waxworms b/c they are lizard candy...I just want him to eat something/anything! He isn't skinny and does not look like he's lost any weight. I want to weigh him daily, but I don't want to stress him.

I have not yet taken him in to a vet for a wellness checkup/fecal culture because I wanted to let him settle and de-stress from the move. I am looking for advice from fellow Jackson's owners: WORRY (and take him to the vet) or WAIT (and give him time to get settled)?

When people say that Chameleons are high stress animals... I thought the meant the lizards! Thanks in advance.

Give him a week or so to get settled in.

If he has taken in alot of D3, it may be effecting his appetite.
(He may not want to eat, for fear of taking in more)

He does look a bit under fed at the moment.

Here are the main two resources that should prove useful to you:

Hoj's blog:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/hoj/634-montane-chameleon-care-info.html

Jdog1027's video:

 

[Lathis]

Thanks for the reply. I'll nix the Ca supplements until I can get something without D3 (not that he's eaten any yet).

I mist 2-3 times a day for about 30 secs by hand. I just got my Mistking delivered do I will set that up for automated and longer mistings when I am at work. I'll probably still keep the dripper going too.

I also run a cool mist humidifier into his enclosure most of the day. Until summer comes, it's just too dry to maintain RH by misting alone.

He's still perky, drinks plenty of fluids, explores all the time. He's definitely less interested in me since he got all his plants and twigs in place (sad for me, great for him).

I'm keeping an eye on him via webcam (nerdy, yes, but fun!) while I am at work. Hopefully, he's get settled into a routine soon.

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!
In addition to the good info you've already been given, here is an excellent caresheet on Jackson's:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/jacksons/

I love Ferdinand's long horns--he's a real cutie
If you're in the USA, you can try this place for Blue bottle fly pupae, it's where I've gotten mine:
http://www.mantisplace.com/feederinsects.html
A good place for other feeders:
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/
There are also other feeder sources on the sponsors page:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/index.php?page=sponsors
Phoenixworms and Blue Bottle flies are often good foods to tempt chams into eating. The wiggling or flying motions get the chams excited.

The Mistking is a great system and I'm sure he will enjoy it.
One of my Jackson's likes to stand a few inches away from the nozzle and just soak himself while facing into the mist.

The webcam is a great idea, since you can spy on him without making him nervous. They do tend to be shy and gentle chams.

 

[Solid Snake]

Thanks for the reply. I'll nix the Ca supplements until I can get something without D3 (not that he's eaten any yet).

I mist 2-3 times a day for about 30 secs by hand. I just got my Mistking delivered do I will set that up for automated and longer mistings when I am at work. I'll probably still keep the dripper going too.

I also run a cool mist humidifier into his enclosure most of the day. Until summer comes, it's just too dry to maintain RH by misting alone.

He's still perky, drinks plenty of fluids, explores all the time. He's definitely less interested in me since he got all his plants and twigs in place (sad for me, great for him).

I'm keeping an eye on him via webcam (nerdy, yes, but fun!) while I am at work. Hopefully, he's get settled into a routine soon.

Sounds good.

If you feel that your RH is low enough to keep the fogger on all/most of the day, Id recommend placing it were it doesnt effect the whole cage. Maybe just one corner, or side, opposite of the basking area.

I generally would say dont leave it on all day, just monings and late afternoon/evenings, but I have had to deal with extremely low RH myself, and it can really help.

I imagine the MK will help a great deal, once you get it dialed in, to where it only comes on after the enclosure has dried, and to give a few long sessions throughout the day, then you may want to ease back on the fogger. It will just depend on your situation though, so keep on keeping an eye on everything.

 

[Lathis]

Still no luck getting Ferdinand to eat. He's starting to look skinny and seems lethargic. He slept on a rock last night instead of a vine and has been laying belly down constantly. Fatigue? Dehydration? Hunger-induced weakness?

I'm scheduling a vet appointment but I don't have any fresh droppings to take with me for the exam.

Despite the constant dripper (which he has drank from before where it dripped on leaves and vines), he drinks when I mist him like he's dehydrated. He is cleaning himself, eyes/nose/vent look fine. No sleeping during day that I have seen. The webcam freaked him out yesterday, so I put it away to avoid stressing him (it does kind of look like a big eye).

In the meantime, I'm going to put him in the shower tonight for a prolonged misting and bump his daytime ambient temp up just a few degrees to about 72-75 and up his RH as high as I can.

I really don't want to lose my little guy; I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Lathis]

Droppings! Just happened and they look perfect. Ferdie's still going to the vet, but that tells me he's not obstructed on something.

I'm never been so happy to see an animal poop in my whole life

 

[Lovereps]

You can save the dropping in a plastic baggie and keep it in the fridge, so the vet can test it for parasites.
If he pooped, he has obviously eaten something.
Try a variety of feeders, as mentioned before.
He might be tired of crickets.

A vet with plenty of reptile knowledge is the best choice for your cham.
ARAV vets have a special interest in reptiles and may be the best option.
You can look here to locate one:
http://www.arav.org/find-a-vet/

The MistKing will help the humidity and you can also cover 2 or 3 sides of his cage with plastic sheeting.

 

[Lathis]

The Great Hunger Strike of 2013 has ended! Ferdinand aggressively hunted down and ate a cricket yesterday morning and then three in a row again this morning. Upping his daytime ambient temps to 72-73F really perked him up - no more laying on his belly all day. Slightly smaller crickets climbing on the screen seems to the formula for feeding success.

I found a local cham vet, so he has a well lizard checkup tomorrow. Plus, I have fresh droppings chilling in the fridge (the hubby's thrilled about that, btw) to check for "friends". Ferdie seems to be back on his morning voiding routine.

Thanks for everyone's advise and thanks for listing to the worries of a newbie cham owner

 

[Lathis]

Also, I have hornworms and silkworms on the way, so I can offer a little more feeder variety. In town, I can only get waxworms, superworms, and crickets. Hopefully this will help keep him eating and "regular".

Thanks again!

I'll post some pictures of Ferdie and his enclosure.

 

[Lovereps]

I have to order my feeders by mail, too to have a good variety.

People here are happy to help chamowners who are willing to do the things their cham needs.

It's nice to read about healthy chams and their happy owners.