pamnsam94
Established Member
Have you ever had babies that die soon (a month or less) after hatching? I'm sure many of you probably answered "yes" to that question. I just want to share a thought that may be encouraging for some of you.
I've had the unfortunate experience, more often than I care to mention, of babies dying for what seems to be no apparent reason, especially since I followed all the recomendations when raising neonates of that particular species. Most of my experiences, and failures, have been with various montane species.
You may have read in my other posts how I recently (about 3 weeks ago) hatched 14 of 16 quad eggs. So far, all of the babies seem to be doing great, but I have a long way to go, so this post may be way too premature.
However, I will say that from the moment of hatching, all of these guys seemed to be strong. From the time they finished making slits in their eggs, many of them emerged in less that a minute. Some of them seemed to burst out in even less time than that. Hopefully, that is a good sign of their overall strength. I've had other clutches die after the babies slit their eggs (never emerged at all) and I even had a baby die with his head poking out of the egg. He simply didn't seem to have the strength to fully emerge.
What I want to point out is how vitally important the health of the mother is in producing healthy offspring. I know it's come up before, but maybe it hasn't been emphasized enough, especially with egg-laying species. The health of the mother is more often mentioned with live-bearing species, like Jackson's chameleons, as a possible cause for early death of the neonates.
Even though most of us know intellectually that the health of the mother is important in producing healthy offspring, I think many, myself included, are sometimes guilty of thinking that once we have neonates hatch, we are starting from square one and success or failure from then on out is simply due to how we care for the neonates. However, certainly that is not always the case. I'm sure others can back me up on this. Some neonates are doomed from the start, from the time they hatch, from the time the eggs are laid, even from the time the eggs are formed within the mother, no matter what actions are taken by us. I've had baby quads hatch where I, now especially, think that even if I were to have released them into the wilds of Cameroon right after hatching, none of them would have survived, even given the optimum conditions (ideal humidity, a tremendous variety of food, etc.).
Since I've dealt a lot with montanes, I've been extremely conservative, even fearful sometimes, with using certain supplements, especially those that contain D3 and preformed vitamin A. I gave the mother of these neonates retinol, about one drop a month, something I would have steered clear of in the past. In this instance, I'm at least hypothesizing that it made a difference in the health of the babies. Time will tell how well they will grow or if they survive at all.
Right now, I'm supplementing with pure calcium (no D3) at approximately every other feeding. Additionally, I have given them one feeding of Repashy's Calcium Plus (contains preformed vitamin A and a small amout of D3). They are currently housed all together, and I have a Mega-Ray 100 watt UVB lamp at the top of their tall cage (open front enclosure with solid shower type walls on three sides). They are watered with a Mist King nozzle that sprays RO water for 5 minutes 3 times a day. I also hand mist occasionally. They move up and down all day long hunting the fruit flies I am primarily feeding them. I also raise dart frogs so I have multiple strains of melanogaster going at all times in addition to hydeii. Some of the neonates also ate black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms), but all of them seem to enjoy the flies the most. Those flickering fly wings are hard to resist I guess. I think I'll feed field sweepings next. I've had too many bad experiences with commericially raised insects, especially with montane species. I don't know what all the suppliers feed their insects, but I suspect that much of it is fortified with preformed vitamin A and D3 at who knows what levels. I think too much D3 is more often to blame than is too much preformed vitamin A for organ damage/malfunction, which can result in edema and stunted growth. From what I've read, hypovitamintosis A is way more commonly seen by vets than hypervitamintosis A, not only in reptiles in general but in chameleons specifically.
Bottom line, don't overlook the mother's health when trying to find out why your young neonates die in less than a month. Eyes closing may simply be a sign of overall weakness, not necessarily an issue with humidity or other issues that are correctable. Be encouraged that even though you went "by to book" (even though there may not technically be a bulletproof method for a particular species) in trying to raise babies, only to have them expire after much time and effort, you should try again. Don't give up. Of course, husbandry issues with the neonates themselves may be all together or at least partially responsible for why you lost your babies, but again, don't over look the health of the mother. I'm not only talking about her overall health and the way she appears, but also consider what nutrients, vitamins, minerals, etc. she had access to and to the amounts and proportions prior to her developing eggs.
Perry
I've had the unfortunate experience, more often than I care to mention, of babies dying for what seems to be no apparent reason, especially since I followed all the recomendations when raising neonates of that particular species. Most of my experiences, and failures, have been with various montane species.
You may have read in my other posts how I recently (about 3 weeks ago) hatched 14 of 16 quad eggs. So far, all of the babies seem to be doing great, but I have a long way to go, so this post may be way too premature.
However, I will say that from the moment of hatching, all of these guys seemed to be strong. From the time they finished making slits in their eggs, many of them emerged in less that a minute. Some of them seemed to burst out in even less time than that. Hopefully, that is a good sign of their overall strength. I've had other clutches die after the babies slit their eggs (never emerged at all) and I even had a baby die with his head poking out of the egg. He simply didn't seem to have the strength to fully emerge.What I want to point out is how vitally important the health of the mother is in producing healthy offspring. I know it's come up before, but maybe it hasn't been emphasized enough, especially with egg-laying species. The health of the mother is more often mentioned with live-bearing species, like Jackson's chameleons, as a possible cause for early death of the neonates.
Even though most of us know intellectually that the health of the mother is important in producing healthy offspring, I think many, myself included, are sometimes guilty of thinking that once we have neonates hatch, we are starting from square one and success or failure from then on out is simply due to how we care for the neonates. However, certainly that is not always the case. I'm sure others can back me up on this. Some neonates are doomed from the start, from the time they hatch, from the time the eggs are laid, even from the time the eggs are formed within the mother, no matter what actions are taken by us. I've had baby quads hatch where I, now especially, think that even if I were to have released them into the wilds of Cameroon right after hatching, none of them would have survived, even given the optimum conditions (ideal humidity, a tremendous variety of food, etc.).
Since I've dealt a lot with montanes, I've been extremely conservative, even fearful sometimes, with using certain supplements, especially those that contain D3 and preformed vitamin A. I gave the mother of these neonates retinol, about one drop a month, something I would have steered clear of in the past. In this instance, I'm at least hypothesizing that it made a difference in the health of the babies. Time will tell how well they will grow or if they survive at all.
Right now, I'm supplementing with pure calcium (no D3) at approximately every other feeding. Additionally, I have given them one feeding of Repashy's Calcium Plus (contains preformed vitamin A and a small amout of D3). They are currently housed all together, and I have a Mega-Ray 100 watt UVB lamp at the top of their tall cage (open front enclosure with solid shower type walls on three sides). They are watered with a Mist King nozzle that sprays RO water for 5 minutes 3 times a day. I also hand mist occasionally. They move up and down all day long hunting the fruit flies I am primarily feeding them. I also raise dart frogs so I have multiple strains of melanogaster going at all times in addition to hydeii. Some of the neonates also ate black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms), but all of them seem to enjoy the flies the most. Those flickering fly wings are hard to resist I guess.
I think I'll feed field sweepings next. I've had too many bad experiences with commericially raised insects, especially with montane species. I don't know what all the suppliers feed their insects, but I suspect that much of it is fortified with preformed vitamin A and D3 at who knows what levels. I think too much D3 is more often to blame than is too much preformed vitamin A for organ damage/malfunction, which can result in edema and stunted growth. From what I've read, hypovitamintosis A is way more commonly seen by vets than hypervitamintosis A, not only in reptiles in general but in chameleons specifically.Bottom line, don't overlook the mother's health when trying to find out why your young neonates die in less than a month. Eyes closing may simply be a sign of overall weakness, not necessarily an issue with humidity or other issues that are correctable. Be encouraged that even though you went "by to book" (even though there may not technically be a bulletproof method for a particular species) in trying to raise babies, only to have them expire after much time and effort, you should try again. Don't give up. Of course, husbandry issues with the neonates themselves may be all together or at least partially responsible for why you lost your babies, but again, don't over look the health of the mother. I'm not only talking about her overall health and the way she appears, but also consider what nutrients, vitamins, minerals, etc. she had access to and to the amounts and proportions prior to her developing eggs.
Perry
