Need some help on HEAT! and respiratory infection?

[BallstoWall30]

My Chemeleon-My Chameleon, Gucci, is a male panther blue bar and he is 7 months old now, and hes been with me for 5 months.
Handling-I handle my Chameleon every other day.
Feeding-I feed him crickets and try to put like 2 or 3 in his cage everyday and always have a few in his cage, and I gut load them with carrots, greens, papaya, and oranges.
Supplements- I put repcal calcium on the crickets everyday except for the weekends, and on the weekends I use every other weekend switching between herpivite and D3 and then Minerall the next week.
Watering-I use a mistKing every 2 hours from 7am to 700pm and goes off for 2 min, and I use a dripper in the corner just in case hes thirsty. I think he hates the mister but I can see him drinking all the time from both.
Fecals-His poop is normal with the urate white but sometimes a tiny tinge of orange. Hasnt been tested for parasites yet because I just got him and got him from TikiTikiReptiles and trust them.
Cage- Screen terrarium 15X16X28
Lighting- Reptisun light 5.0 UVB, then basking bulb 60 watt at the top of cage
Temperature- HUGE PROBLEM!- Basking spot gets up to 80 or 90 degrees bottom of cage gets to below 60 at night sometimes and when misting system goes off it fluctuates hugely, I also have ceramic emitter on all the time because my room gets soooo cold and idk what to do because if I turn on heat our electric bill sky rockets to more than $300, but have thermometer in middle of cage and sometimes move it
Humidity- 50% to 90% when misting system goes off
Plants-fake vines and a ficus live plant
Location- far away from window so no draft in the corner of my room away from cold spots, cage is high on dresser
Location- I am in San Diego, and IT DOES GET COLD HERE AT NIGHT! my room has no insulation one bit!

MY problem- I think my chameleon has a respiratory infection because hes been keeping his mouth open all day today for the first time, and I think its linked to the temperature problem and the misting problem. Is it possible to get rid of a respiratory infection without vet? And if I am going to keep the misting system on this winter how do I keep the water warm? I have a heat pad on it right now, but doesnt seem to be warming it up very well. And How bad can the temps fluctuate with a male panther? The temps usually stay between 60 and 70 now and up to 80 to 90 with his little heater but that costs alot of electricity, but its only November and Im worried if it gets any colder, I dont know what to do. Who would have thought Id have a problem with cold temps in San Diego

 

[jannb]

I would recommend not misting after 4 pm so the cage will have plenty of time to dry out before bed time. For his basking spot I would recommend 85 or86. No matter where you get your cham they can have or get parasites. Parasites come form the feeders that they eat. I would highly recommend a fecal on ALL chameleons. I'll see if I can find you some links about RI. Have you seen any extra saliva in his mouth? You would need to take him to the vets for a culture and sensitive test to see which meds would work for the type of infection he has. There's also a good cham vet in San Diego. I'll get that name for you too.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/theres-no-such-thing-uri-14277/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/back-vet-medication-questions-39302/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/concerns-my-female-panther-47322/

Thomas H. Boyer, DVM
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos, 888-F Carmel Mountain Road, San Diego, CA - (858) 484-3490
Pet Hospital of Penasquitos

 

[BallstoWall30]

He has two spots to keep warm with the ceramic heater but he goes back and forth, I was planning to bring him in for a fecal sample when i had him for 6 months but it might have to be sooner now lol. I havent seen any extra saliva yet just his mouth always open.

 

[BallstoWall30]

Is it okay if have his temps between 60 and 70 all the time? and 80 in basking area? I thought 60's would only be good at nighttime

 

[jannb]

In the day time you should have a basking spot in the mid 80's. The middle of the cage should be in the mid to upper 70's and the low 70's on the bottom.

 

[BallstoWall30]

Thats a big problem because my room is in the 60's during the day so I cant even take him out of his cage anymore because it isnt warm enough, at night it gets worse so I got that ceramic heater. I dont know what to do about my room temperature Ugh

 

[jannb]

Thats a big problem because my room is in the 60's during the day so I cant even take him out of his cage anymore because it isnt warm enough, at night it gets worse so I got that ceramic heater. I dont know what to do about my room temperature Ugh

Maybe a little heater for your room. That should work nicely.

 

[fluxlizard]

My panthers go down close to 50 at night fall/winter/spring and midwinter background temps in the room often do not reach 70 during the day for a couple of months each year when most of my other lizards are brumating.

I've never had a respiratory infection in a panther with this temperature schedule. I've kept panthers since 1992 or 93 and have had this temperature schedule since the latter part of the 90s.

Indoors I use 75 watt bulbs for basking over the reptariums. I am a believer in nice warm basking spots so the lizards can keep their immune system and other systems functioning optimally.

Temperature choice is under the control of each of my lizards, with multiple basking sites available beneath the bulbs so they can choose from a true gradient of temperatures from well into the 90s on down to ambient room temperature. This is an important point because if your lizard is under the heat light basking all day with his mouth open he very well might not have a respiratory infection but might be cooking because he chooses a little too much heat rather than too much cold, when given the choice. If he doesn't have a true temperature gradient, but only one spot that is warm enough for basking and the rest of the cage too cold, many times lizard will choose the hot to the point of even burning themselves, rather than the cold. So if your lizard basks all day, and is gaping while he is doing that, it may very well not be a respiratory problem at all and you should consider changing your basking situation to provide a true temperature gradient situation. If he is gaping all day and spending significant time away from the basking spot- then you can be more confident that it is in fact a respiratory problem.

You might want to look at other factors in addition to your temperature- like your misting schedule. Constant dampness is bad and panthers really don't need a lot of ambient humidity- you might want to reconsider that schedule and give them more less often so the enclosure can dry out. Constant dampness invites mold and mildew which can lead to respiratory problems and can be very subtle. It is very difficult for organic materials like soil in the plant pots, the leaves and trunks of plants, branches of wood or vines for the chameleon, etc to completely dry between mistings every couple of hours.

Check out the AVS chameleon book on veileds, jacksons, panthers and parsons- panthers need very little ambient humidity to remain healthy. You can get the same information in ferguson's panther chameleon book and from other sources. It's been a while since I reviewed the info but seems like humidity can be as low as 30 something percent and still have healthy panthers (you should not count on my memory though- go check my sources for yourself- I don't have to worry about humidity in my home state here near the east coast, so I haven't made a point of memorizing the exact numbers given, only the principle that panthers require surprisingly very little humidity to remain healthy). A good soaking mist once or twice a day along is probably enough for most situations. If not a humidifier in the room is a better way to control air humidity than misting every couple of hours because it won't create constant dampness in the terrarium. In my situation- 2 x 20 minute misting sessions provide all my chameleons with all the water they need, and 1x would really be enough if I weren't keeping mellers.

All this is wordy so here is the short version-

Check your temperature gradient.
Do not provide only 2 temperature options (hot and cold).
Do not reduce the basking temp of a chameleon with RI- instead make certain it is warm enough (well into the 90s) so the chameleon can fight the infection with an active immune system.
Do make certain you are providing a true thermal gradient- you should have multiple basking sites below your heat source so your lizard can select the one that matches the temperature it wants to be at any given moment. One spot should be 90, another 88, another 92, another 87, another 85, etc, etc. If you cannot do this with a single basking bulb, you may need 2 or even 3 in your situation, and if so you may need to play with wattages of each bulb to keep things from getting too hot while still providing an area with a thermal gradient. Or the suggestion for a little heater in your room would be appropriate instead.

Consider changing your mist schedule if it really is an RI.

 

[JackP308]

how is your room 60f in the day in San Diego. Maybe turn your a/c off . Seriously though I live on the lake in Cleveland my house is never that cold in the winter even. Trade you homes.

wow I just checked the weather and it is freezing in southern California. I didn't think it got that cold. 48f right now. Grant it there is time difference we're sitting at 57F in Cleveland.

 

[brooklynelizabeth]

60 today in Maine, with a high of 64. us Mainers sweat in this kind of weather..lol. I find that if you have windows in the room you can always leave the curtains wide open and let the sun beam in, that usually raises the temp a good amount. In the winter time we usually keep the house at a ambient 65-70 in most rooms, with the reptile room being kept at around 75 ambient, so that keeps our reptiles nice and cozy in the enclosures, and also makes it easy to maintain the proper temps. As suggested make sure your AC is not running on turbo, and for heat, try closing the doors to the reptile room/ area, the heat emitters and lights can actually raise the temp of the room after a good amount of time. Hope you dont have to battle RI or parasites.

 

[Elizadolots]

how is your room 60f in the day in San Diego.

San Diego is a big county. Today it's hitting 60 at the coast, but where I live it's more like 50. It was close to freezing overnight.

 

[JackP308]

San Diego is a big county. Today it's hitting 60 at the coast, but where I live it's more like 50. It was close to freezing overnight.

I didn't realize southern cali was even that cold already or even ever that cold. I picture beaches and sun all year round.

I guess it is Christmas already sheesh time flies when your having fun .

 

[BallstoWall30]

Yea it gets really cold at night here, we live in an old house and our heater sucks, makes our electric bill jump to over 300$ so we keep A/C and heat off all the time as much as possible. I started using the space heater last night and then his poop was really dehydrated today which really surpised me. I think I am going to switch the water cycle in the mister, and I need to somehow heat the water in the bucket if you guys have any ideas? He hasnt kept his mouth open today at all since Ive been home, but yesterday it was open when he walked throughout the cage. I might get another basking lamp, but if temps like that worked for you I might try it and turn of the ceramic emitter. He definitely looks better today besides the completely ugly urate in his poop lol..! But how long is a good time to leave water running in his cage and how often? Ive been changing it alot bc I dont think my Cham Gucci likes the misting system at all!! Everytime I turn it on he seems miserable and runs to the bottom of the cage..... he has always done that even in the summer!

 

[Elizadolots]

For those not familiar with San Diego, a good basic rule is that it's 1 degree "more" than the normal temperature for every mile you go east from the beach. So, during the summer, it's 1 degree hotter every mile, in the winter, it's 1 degree colder...that's not at all exact, but it gives you an idea. I live about 12 miles east of the beach. There is a lot of San Diego County that is east of where I live.

There are areas of San Diego County that get snow.

I'd mist as much as possible and have a dripper (or two) going as much as possible. I wonder if his mouth being open is not because of a respiratory infection but because he's pissed off at something? Do you hear any sounds? (clicking, coughing, sneezing) Is there any mucous?

 

[BallstoWall30]

No mucus but I think the day he was keepin his mouth open it sounded like he had a stuffy nose or something like a human would sound when I picked him up. But yesterday his mouth wasn't open all day which I'm so glad.... Still looking for a good urate today though if not I'll bring to get for a fecal test.

 

[hinoco1225]

I think you need to reduce your misting schedule. If his environment is constantly wet, it becomes a breeding ground for bacteria, mold, and mildew - and those could definitely cause respiratory problems. My rule of thumb is that I wait until my cages are almost completely dried out between mistings, which means I typically mist three times a day. As long as you have the dripper going, he still has access to water. And remember, it doesn't rain or mist constantly where they live in the wild. Some days it may not even rain at all. So a constantly wet environment is not really good or natural for him.

I agree that you need to find a way to create a true temperature gradient for him, so that he has more options than hot or cold. I agree that a space heater for your room might be the easiest way to begin to solve the problem. Stabilize the temperatures in your room first, because if the ambient temperatures are still fluctuating a lot, it doesn't matter what you do to the cage - it's still going to fluctuate.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but I just have to mention this as well. If you are going to use the heater, remember to try to reduce the fire hazard as much as possible. I would stay in the room with it as much as possible for the first few days to make sure it's not getting too hot. Make sure it's not too close to any furniture, curtains, clothes, etc.

One last thing - I do recommend taking your cham to the vet as well. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it. I just had to spend $100 that I don't have to take my beardie to the vet well before I intended to get his first checkup/fecal. But I guess that's what we signed up for, huh? Lol

 

[BallstoWall30]

I changed his misting times to go off at 8, 12 and 4 each for 4 minutes so well see how that goes unless its too much but I think itll work. My space heater does get really hot.... I had it on yesterday on my whole room was completely hot when I came back from work. so idk lol, but it is in a safe place for sure. Do you have to bring poop to the vet for the fecal test or do they take it out of him?

 

[jannb]

You will need to take fresh poop with you to the vet for a fecal.