Need Help!

[Syn]

So what is the purpose of methonidazole? A just-in-case medicine?

Aren't most medicines hard on the kidneys?

 

[Skim302]

To tell you the truth I think that is what they are all for. I wanted to KNOW what was wrong with her and then I would get whatever I needed to make her better. I feel like I am in a guessing game now to find out what is wrong with her. She is also on Panacur and Baytril. She is still doing everything she was before. I'm not saying that she should be all better in one day but she was at the bottom of her cage again today. I still have a box full of moist sand in her cage incase she is carrying eggs.

 

[Syn]

Is it common for vets to give every reptile that goes in Banfield, Baytril?

I know that when I first went to Banfield (no other choice at the time) the gave me Baytril.. *shakes head* Then there was my friend who went it for some turtles.. they got Baytril..

All of this is going to be harsh on the kidneys.

 

[Skim302]

Yeah, I guess I'll know better next time.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Shotgun approach.........

The vet is using a shotgun approach. Shooting out a wide spray of pellets and hoping one will hit the target. Metronidazole will get rid of Protazoans like Trichamonas. Panacur will get rid of Nematodes (worms). Bayril is an antibiotic for infections. The only thing it seems not prescribed for her is Albon which kills Coccidia. Coccidia also has the symptom of stinky poop. Hopefully she has Giardia and not Coccidia. You still need to get a fecal at some point in the near future for two reasons. To confirm that the treatments killed the stuff it works on. Also to confirm that she does not have Coccidia which is very common and would not be killed by any of these medication.

This is a lot of medication and the Baytril and the Metronidazole is hard on the kidneys. Make sure she gets extra misting/drinking opportunities. If she goes down hill stop the Medication and go to a regular vet ASAP. Another thing. All these medicines are going to kill off all the good bacteria in her digestive system. Once each week you need to dust her food with a Probiotic powder to put the good bacteria back in her. When the good bacteria is killed it causing digestive problems and a possible loss of appetite. It can also cause runny poop. Petsmart may carry a Probiotic product. Or you can order them online for places like Big Apple or LLL Reptile.

And remember my earlier comment about disinfecting her cage between rounds of treatment to kill ocysts/eggs to prevent her from getting the parasite again. Also, clean up her poop as soon as she poops. Don't let the mister water the poop and spread ocysts/eggs around the cage.

How is she looking today. Does she look any better to you?

 

[Skim302]

I took everything out of her cage and replaced it with new stuff. Nothing in her cage now was in it before.

I will definatly keep an eye on her.

I have a check up in a week so I'll make sure to get the freshest poo sample.

She is still has no appetite. She is also still going to the bottom of her cage every morning which I still find odd. She might have eggs but the last time she only went to the bottom of her cage at nights. I have a hibiscus in her enclosure now and she seems to be moving from branch to branch, so I guess thats good. All in all I don't know if anything has drastically improved. It's only been one day so hopefully she will regain her appetite soon so I can dust her food with the stuff you suggested.

 

[summoner12]

Aight... don't take this the wrong way but knock it off... we are telling you she has eggs by looking at her.... you are telling us she doesn't want to eat... something little girls do when loaded up with eggs...... another indicator that she is ready to lay, and pointed out by you: she goes to the bottom. Just take the advice and if we're wrong we're wrong, it won't hurt her. but not letting her lay will.

Now to get on with this so you don't lose your cham. get her a laying bin and drop her into it and leave her alone. after an hour or two check on her. It is pretty obvious she needs to lay. 5 gallon bucket with moist dirt and sand works really well. fill it with about 10-12" of dirt and there should be enough of a lip around the sides that she can't get out. place a low wattage heat lamp above her for light and mild warmth and leave her alone. don't let her see you or anything else.

 

[kinyonga]

And there's still the calcium/UVB issues to be addressed.

If she doesn't dig in a day or two IMHO she needs to be checked for eggbinding.

 

[Skim302]

Aight... don't take this the wrong way but knock it off... we are telling you she has eggs by looking at her.... you are telling us she doesn't want to eat... something little girls do when loaded up with eggs...... another indicator that she is ready to lay, and pointed out by you: she goes to the bottom. Just take the advice and if we're wrong we're wrong, it won't hurt her. but not letting her lay will.

Now to get on with this so you don't lose your cham. get her a laying bin and drop her into it and leave her alone. after an hour or two check on her. It is pretty obvious she needs to lay. 5 gallon bucket with moist dirt and sand works really well. fill it with about 10-12" of dirt and there should be enough of a lip around the sides that she can't get out. place a low wattage heat lamp above her for light and mild warmth and leave her alone. don't let her see you or anything else.

First off, how can I not take that the wrong way? I am not being ignorant or mean to you guys at all. I came here asking for help and that is what I have been recieving until you put your two cents in. Everything that people have said I should do I did.

1. Took out her night light and put in a UVB tube.
2. Took out all of the fake stuff and replaced it with a hibiscus.
3. Took out all of the bark substrate and replaced it with newspaper.
4. Took her to the vet as soon as I possibly could. Which the vet told me she doesn't look like she has eggs.

I don't understand why you are coming at me like this. I never denied the fact that she might have eggs. If you didn't read my previous post I said I have a box of moist sand in there already. I already have tried putting her in it and she wants nothing to do with it. I will try the bucket tomorrow. And even if she does have eggs that doesn't expalin the stinky poop which she is being treated for.

Spending over $200 in the last couple days really shows my lack of concern. I don't get what your problem is but in your own words "knock it off."

 

[summoner12]

First off, how can I not take that the wrong way? I am not being ignorant or mean to you guys at all. I came here asking for help and that is what I have been recieving until you put your two cents in. Everything that people have said I should do I did.

1. Took out her night light and put in a UVB tube.
2. Took out all of the fake stuff and replaced it with a hibiscus.
3. Took out all of the bark substrate and replaced it with newspaper.
4. Took her to the vet as soon as I possibly could. Which the vet told me she doesn't look like she has eggs.

I don't understand why you are coming at me like this. I never denied the fact that she might have eggs. If you didn't read my previous post I said I have a box of moist sand in there already. I already have tried putting her in it and she wants nothing to do with it. I will try the bucket tomorrow. And even if she does have eggs that doesn't expalin the stinky poop which she is being treated for.

Spending over $200 in the last couple days really shows my lack of concern. I don't get what your problem is but in your own words "knock it off."

haha sorry you are right, a little over bearing on my part, sorry.

How deep is your laying bin of sand? I have had two instances with female chams where the laying bin I suggested just worked wonders... actually three times....

Once was a no brainer.. you could see the eggs poping out her side. so, I made my laying bin bucket and dropped her in. It didn't take 5 minutes and she was digging a hole to china... about 4-5 months later she was loaded with eggs again and I dropped her into the laying bin. This time it was a diffferent size bin.

The third instance was with my Melleri. I did not know if she was a he or she... so out of frustration I just 'locked' her into the laying bin and left her there as I went off to work. sounds cruel.. but it wasn't, my GF was home to check on her after and hour or so... and well... she was digging when my GF checked in with the melleri.

The advantage of the bucket is that the cham has nothing to do BUT dig... so they get right to it if they are in that mode of 'i need to lay!' if she sits there confused after an hour or two...... then maybe there is an issue.

Again, sorry, I was very blunt.

Edit: I am guessing that some of the people on this forum have more experience than the vet you saw. Unless he sees exotics, and a lot of them or keeps many reptiles or even chameleons... I can't imagine he has the experience many of us have. I mean sure I am no expert... and I run into issues myself sometimes and that is why we are all here reading this forum, to help each other out. but vets aren't always as hip to the new or niche way of doing things. I had a cham to a vet who sees exotics and he had no idea about UV..... which was the issue... so.... reading this forum gave me the info and i did what I could. It was too late for my little guy but from then on I have never had that sort of issue again. I learned the hard way what to look for and how to fix the issue. I learned from a mistake I made and now use that info to help others. If a vet says one thing and a bunch of reading and input from others tells you something else, he could be wrong. doesn't make him a bad person or a bad vet... it just means he doesn't know any better. Chameleons are pretty exotic pets. when people hear i keep chameleons they are like 'where did you get the idea to keep that kind of animal?!' and since not many people have them, not many vets learn about them or even get first hand experience with them since not many people bring them in. even an exotics vet prolly doesn't see that many chameleons unless operates in an area where a LOT of people live and he is well known. Even that won't make the vet a 'know it all'.... But it does give them experience.

 

[Skim302]

Its ok. Believe me, I am here to take suggestions. So far I have done everything that people have told me.

I am not saying that the vet was right about her not having eggs. I know he didn't have lots of experience with reptiles but I had no choice. Once I found her on the ground again this morning I felt like that had to be her problem.

I am going to do the bucket tomorrow.

 

[Skim302]

So I put her in a bucket full of sand and within 30 minutes she was digging. I left her alone for about two hours and I noticed the sand was getting dry so I misted it a little. I came back in an hour later and she was laying eggs. She only layed 16 this time so I guess that is the reason she didn't look as big as before.

I can't tell you guys how much of a help you have been. I will continue to come here for all of my chameleon information.

By the way, the bucket of sand idea is brilliant .

 

[summoner12]

16 eggs isn't very much....

The sand and dirt should be wet enough that it will hold shape. she should dig almost to the bottom of the bucket to lay. if she only dug a few inches and only dropped 16 eggs off I don't think she was done. And if she doesn't lay them all she won't make it. Did you have the bucket in an area where she couldn't see anyone or anything moving? I think tomorrow you should try again. My female is very small.... but she still lays about 40 eggs. To keep the egg count down the food intake needs to be monitored closely... im still working on that part.

 

[PardalisGirl]

By the way, the bucket of sand idea is brilliant .

Summoner12's idea was fabulous. His thoughts about the number of eggs is right on target too. I've had several females that took more than one session to lay the eggs. I think there are more eggs than that too. Veileds lay a lot of eggs. I believe the females I had with this issue laid one set or string of eggs and then in a few days laid the other. They have two complete sets of follicals that produce eggs. I think that ocassionally they will not develop at the same rate. Keep trying the bucket each day until she lays again. The females I had laying in two sessions had a couple days of rest in between.

I'm glad you like it here. We love people who try everything they can to help their chams

 

[summoner12]

lol when I replied last night I could hardly keep my eyes open muchless really think my thoughts through entirely....

I wanted to give credit for the bucket idea to Mike Monge. I am sure others have used this method, but I heard it from him first. The day before the Reptile Super Show in Pomona I was on the phone with him about getting another Melleri at the show and asked about how I should set up a laying bin for caddie. He told me about the bucket method and why it works so well. and hes right. if there is nothing else to do but dig and lay, they get down to it.

As for your cham after laying... remember to hydrate her well. Give her a nice long shower to clean out her eyes and rehydrate. then offer her some food... be sure you dust with calcium as well.

 

[Skim302]

I put her in the sand again today for about an hour or two and she just sat there. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[Miss Lily]

Veileds lay a lot of eggs.

They certainly can! My dear Lily laid two infertile clutches - the first she laid 104 and the second she laid 102. I've learnt my lesson about over feeding females and Amy's diet will be restricted when she is older so she will hopefully have a longer life than Lily did.

Glad your girl is doing ok. As suggested, make sure you give her a good shower or long misting session to rehydrate her when she's finished laying, should she lay some more.