Need help with C.J.Jacksonii

[Chameleons Northwest]

Well, late last night we came home with 2 j.jacksonii. At least, we're pretty sure the female is a c.j.j. The keeper said they're both c.j.j., but the male has atypical coloration, so may possibly be a Xanth?

We were shopping for cages on craigslist and this guy had 15 really nice cages from a failed breeding operation, and 2 surviving c.j.j. The cages were full of nasty substrate, and fake plants that were covered in dung, and 1 cage even still had a dead chameleon in it. We will be cleaning them with bleach, rinse, ammonia, rinse, Nolvasan, rinse.

So now we have these 2 jacksons, a species which is all new to us. There was not a lot of info on adcham for the care of this subspecies. I checked the Chameleon E-zine and did not find any there (some links did not work). And also not a whole lot of info here on the forum for this particular subspecies. So I need advice, and am currently planning to follow Xanth husbandry for their set up.

The keeper had them about 9 months. They are full grown- female is said to be about 1 yr old, and a virgin. The male is said to be about 1.5 years old and is shedding. Female is 3.4" svl, 27.4g. Male is 4.5" svl, 68g. They appear to be healthy and plump. They were kept in separate cages in the bedroom. Ambient room temps were said to be 60s to 70s daytime and 50s to 60s nighttime. The cages were set together, with a visual barrier between them. There was one 240W mercury vapor bulb hanging six inches above their cages. The keeper could not sell us the bulb because he broke it while getting their cages down before we got there.

I don't really want to invest in a mercury vapor bulb unless you guys say it's the best way to go. Seems a bit intense for this breed. But, when we get a healthy adult cham from someone I usually try to emulate the temps/humidty/etc, that the cham is accustomed to, and then ease on in to more appropriate parameters. Changing everything at once so that the husbandry is "by the book" doesn't always seem to be the best immediate course of action. Unless the chameleon has been sickened by the current set up. Of course I realize that although they appear healthy now, poor husbandry may catch up with them in the long run.

Anyway, I did change their cage set ups. We have them in clean mesh cages, with live plants and reptile vines. No substrate. The cages are set low in the cham room, so their temps are cool. Ambient temp at that level is 69-72f. There are several good sized ficus, pothos, shefflera in their cages. More than I use for veileds or panthers, because I want good humidity retention. Their cages are small-ish. I have a cool mist humidifier I intend to direct toward their cages. I am planning to create basking temps of about 80f. If this is OK.

My questions would be- to anyone with experience with this subspecies:
Proper average humidity
Ambient temps
basking temps
specifics on supplementation (from what I've read they don't tolerate supps very well)
Are these c.j.j?

Thank you in advance for your help. Photos below.

FEMALE

MALE

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

If he doesn't respond here you may want to PM Kent. I beleive he is familiar with J.J.

 

[SoCaliSon]

Wow... They are Beautiful. I wish I ahd the ability to keep my cham room cooler... I would love to start working with Montanes, but I struggle keeping my ambient temp in the Cham room under 78' on warm days. I had a window AC unit that was shot down by the stinking HOA.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

If he doesn't respond here you may want to PM Kent. I beleive he is familiar with J.J.

Thank you. I just PMd him.

These are our only Montane species. About a year ago we tried WC Mt. Meru without success. This time we were actually after the cages, and ended up with chams as well. They are probably 2 of the sweetest chameleons we've come across.

 

[Sang]

Gesang, from what i understand the female should have three horns,


and that male really looks like a jacksonii xantholphus, don't take my word for 100% but im lookin at him, and im really just not seeing typical jack jack traits *i could be wrong though*..

http://www.flchams.com/inventory_all.asp?id=1034&cham=Jacksons Chameleons For Sale check out his images,

the female looks more like a dwarf mt meru jackson then a jack jack as the female should have three horns.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

She does have 3 horns. She has 1 full horn and 2 tiny curled up vestigial horns. I'll try to post a close up of her head. But I have read that females can have 1 or 3, with differences occuring even within the same clutch.

Gesang, from what i understand the female should have three horns,


and that male really looks like a jacksonii xantholphus, don't take my word for 100% but im lookin at him, and im really just not seeing typical jack jack traits *i could be wrong though*..

http://www.flchams.com/inventory_all.asp?id=1034&cham=Jacksons Chameleons For Sale check out his images,

the female looks more like a dwarf mt meru jackson then a jack jack as the female should have three horns.

 

[Sang]

>.> can we get a geneticist in here!.... they are cool chameleons.

the male looks great and the female is cool, and ya it is really hard to see her horns, so thats why i thought maybe it might be dwarf variety.

 

[Chris Anderson]

The female is a Chamaeleo (Trioceros) jacksonii jacksonii but the male is a Chamaeleo (Trioceros) jacksonii xantholophus. I would definitely recommend against a MV bulb for jackson's. Go with a fluorescent tube UVB bulb. I've kept all three subspecies of jacksonii fairly similar. Ambient temps in the low to mid 70s and I used a 60 watt basking bulb about 8-10" from their basking perch and a good misting 2-3 times a day.

Chris

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Thank you, Chris. You have confirmed our suspicions. I will set up the lighting accordingly.

 

[Kent67]

Hi Sandy,

I've been away this afternoon, otherwise would've replied sooner. The male is definitely a xanth and the female sure is odd with her turned in preocular horns. Her head structure seems different from the C.j.j.'s I've had. The casque of yours seems higher or something. Also, the root of the rostral horn seems much more robust and pronounced in your female. Left me wondering if she could be a hybrid of xanth and j.j. (the twisting horns?) which occur naturally. At least a different locality. Here's a couple of mine, a WC and an F1:

But, anyway, the C.j.j.'s are a lowland form, compared to the xanths from up on Mt. Kenya. Lowland being a truly relative term with this subspecies being found in the gardens of Nairobi, which sits a mile above sea level. My j.j.'s here love to bask. They climb to the highest part of the screen that gets the first sunlight early every morning and sit and wait to roast. I've seen them on warm days, circa 82F ambient, out on the ends of branches colored black and lateral basking. I also keep mine outside year round, until the temps start dropping below 45-48F when they come in for the nights. I know our climates are a bit different but figured it might help in your enclosure design.

I sure wish your male had been a C.j.j. I'm still looking for one to purchase, or hire

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Thank you, Kent. My next question was going to be whether any male c.j.j. are available. Guess not.

Your females are beautiful. Especially that second one.

Hi Sandy,

I've been away this afternoon, otherwise would've replied sooner. The male is definitely a xanth and the female sure is odd with her turned in preocular horns. Her head structure seems different from the C.j.j.'s I've had. The casque of yours seems higher or something. Also, the root of the rostral horn seems much more robust and pronounced in your female. Left me wondering if she could be a hybrid of xanth and j.j. (the twisting horns?) which occur naturally. At least a different locality. Here's a couple of mine, a WC and an F1:

But, anyway, the C.j.j.'s are a lowland form, compared to the xanths from up on Mt. Kenya. Lowland being a truly relative term with this subspecies being found in the gardens of Nairobi, which sits a mile above sea level. My j.j.'s here love to bask. They climb to the highest part of the screen that gets the first sunlight early every morning and sit and wait to roast. I've seen them on warm days, circa 82F ambient, out on the ends of branches colored black and lateral basking. I also keep mine outside year round, until the temps start dropping below 45-48F when they come in for the nights. I know our climates are a bit different but figured it might help in your enclosure design.

I sure wish your male had been a C.j.j. I'm still looking for one to purchase, or hire