Need Help! First time Veiled with Eggs/Not laying!

[Tzimisces]

I have a Veiled Cham Female that has 40-50 eggs. We have taken her to the vet 3 times this week. She has been given fluids and calcium injects. She does have a laying bin (70% sand/30% eco dirt 12" deep, round container approx 2.5 feet tall and 2 feet diameter) in her cage (which is 2'x2'x4'tall) she has 5.0uvb light, a day light (for added light) a sunlight lamp (for added light) and a red night light (in case it gets cold- we havent been using the night light this last week due to her laying in state) we have tried everything that the vet has told us to do and she is starting to really worry me!! She isnt moving! She is not pacing, she is not digging she isnt doing anything but LAYING there. (not even sitting or standing) When we pick her up, she is still a happy green and doesnt hiss, moves her head as normal, but she doesnt walk around as normal (due to her laying in stage we thought) When I told the vet yesterday that she isnt moving, she got worried. She perscribed oxytocin (like pictocin) to get her started (we need a full day and one more calcium inject to start it) but i dont want to give it to her if i dont have to. Is there anything else I can do for my girl before i give in to the oxytocin injects tomorrow morning?? Is there anything I should worry about during this time?? Any help will be appreciated! Thank you! (Shannan Tzimisces, Omaha, Ne. 9 mo Veiled Cham "Freddy")

 

[jannb]

I would go for the oxytocin and hope it's not too late. I also hope that you have a good chameleon vet. It normally takes several injects of the oxytocin.

She will need complete privacy to lay. You might want to check out my egg laying/laying bin blog below.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[Tzimisces]

I think she is good. She stated right off the bat that she will refuse surgery at all costs. she said it is too dangerous for that and she is pushing the oxy. She gave very specific directions for the oxy and even made me at the vets office inject the calcium just so she could watch over me and make sure it was done properly. She also was straight up and mentioned what could go wrong with the oxy (pushing too hard and pushing out innards, etc.) *scary* and said what to do in a situation like that (dont push them back in, dab the part with a water soluable lubricant and NOT VASALINE) She basically informed me that there really isnt anything i can do except wait it out and pray. I am hoping that someone can give me something else to do besides wait! (I hate waiting)

 

[jannb]

I am not a vet but I don't understand what you are waiting for. Nine months old is pretty young. I hope she'll be ok.

 

[Tzimisces]

We are waiting on the third calcium inject. (the vet said that she will not give oxy until there are at least 3 injects) I will give 3rd inject tomorrow and start oxy 12 hours later tomorrow morning. (not going to ignore the vets direction, just am worried about cham)

 

[Elizadolots]

You might try starting a hole for her and putting her in it. I've seen people say that can get the whole show on the road.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."She isnt moving! She is not pacing, she is not digging she isnt doing anything but LAYING there. (not even sitting or standing)"...since she is not even standing (I assume she is laying on her side?) I don't think she will make it to the next calcium shot. Sorry to tell you that. Not being a vet and not being able to see her I can't tell if its too late for surgery or not either....but I can say that if done in time spaying should be successful. Why is the vet waiting for the 3rd calcium injection? Does the chameleon have MBD?
Can you post a photo please?

BTW...I expect that if she is so weak that she is laying on her side, she's too weak to lay the eggs on her own too.

 

[Tzimisces]

She is NOT laying on her side, just laying there. I have given her the last calcium shot and waited only 30 minutes to give her the oxy due to the fact that she is starting to worry me even more.
She does not have MDB (according to the VET and the XRAYs that she took on Tuesday) I think she is too weak to lay the eggs, which is why i started on the oxy. I have been searching the internet to see what i can do to make her more comfortable and help her lay her eggs, but without much help. There is quite a bit of people out there with "egg bound" chams, but nothing past the fact that they have it. No assistance on how to take care of them or what to do DURING the process. So far, since the picture, i have given her some drops of water to absorb and the calcium along with 3 shots of oxy. she hasnt really done much moving, but she does move occationally. I will keep posting every few hours if anything happens (or not). Thank you so much for your help and assistance! (I have attached a picture of her before her medicines)

 

[Tzimisces]

After 3 doses.

She still isnt moving, but she did open her eyes after I gave her the 4th dose. I didnt take a picture of her after that dose due to the fact that she reacted to the oxy pretty quickly and i wanted to get her into the tub as fast as possible without disturbing her. here is a pic of her in the tub after the 3rd dose.

 

[jannb]

She is NOT laying on her side, just laying there. I have given her the last calcium shot and waited only 30 minutes to give her the oxy due to the fact that she is starting to worry me even more.
She does not have MDB (according to the VET and the XRAYs that she took on Tuesday) I think she is too weak to lay the eggs, which is why i started on the oxy. I have been searching the internet to see what i can do to make her more comfortable and help her lay her eggs, but without much help. There is quite a bit of people out there with "egg bound" chams, but nothing past the fact that they have it. No assistance on how to take care of them or what to do DURING the process. So far, since the picture, i have given her some drops of water to absorb and the calcium along with 3 shots of oxy. she hasnt really done much moving, but she does move occationally. I will keep posting every few hours if anything happens (or not). Thank you so much for your help and assistance! (I have attached a picture of her before her medicines)

From this picture she doesn't look big. To me maybe not even ready to lay eggs. Could it be she has another illness besides being egg bound?

 

[kinyonga]

There is little you can do for an eggbound chameleon aside from trying oxytocin and if it doesn't work, spaying the chameleon.

Eggbinding and follicular stasis (failure of eggs to ovulate, move down the reproductive system) are really big problems with chameleons. There was a two year study done starting in 2007 where female veiled chameleons were raised from babies through at least 2 receptive/egglaying episodes during which time the hormone levels were measured with the hope that this would give some indications of why eggbinding and follicular stasis happened. There was no solution found to either...but its a good base to continue the studies in the next few years.

Fingers crossed that the oxytocin will work.

 

[Tzimisces]

according to the vet, other then the eggs, she is in great health, in fact, when i took her in a few months ago (january) she said that this was the healthiest cham she had ever seen. No parasites, good weight for her age and good coloring. The vet did xrays and said that there were eggs and to get her in there to lay (I saw eggs too, she showed me the xray...there were about 40-50 eggs in there, we didnt count). Vet thinks that she should have already shown signs of laying already and doesnt know why she hasnt.

 

[kinyonga]

Were the "eggs" you saw in the x-ray round or oval or some of each?
Were they in rows or in a bunch like grapes?

 

[Tzimisces]

by the way, this is my first cham, but i did hours of research before i got her. I am hoping that she survives, i am trying to research tonight on how to take care of her after she finally gets the eggs out of her system (if she does) i know first stop is the vet tomorrow to see if we can get hear another shot of calcium (to keep it up) and some fluids (she isnt eating/drinking) and i will get some electrolytes for her. I had read that if you mash up crickts (fresh) with some water and put it in a eye dropper and "force feed" they might live, but it takes weeks. (read it off of a person who had a cham named Chamille) I am hoping that she can survive the night, make it to the vet tomorrow morning and take well to the cricket mash!

 

[Tzimisces]

Thanks so much for your replies! the eggs i saw in the xray were ovalish, and they were bunched up like grapes. there were so many of then! (she is smallish) so i was surprised to see so many of them. the vet was also surprised to see so many on one so young.

 

[Tzimisces]

5th dosage of oxy

Ok, i gave her the 5th dosage of oxy. she seemed much better this time around. she managed to hold her head up a bit on her own. i sprayed her down with water to make sure she is getting fluids and made sure some of it got in her mouth. she actually opened her mouth a few times on her own to take the water. i did this till she wouldnt move any more. after i gave her the dose and tried to put her back in, she actually grabbed the paper towel before i put her in! Hopefully this is a good sign! (oh, and her color is back! It was a bit pale earlier, but after i sprayed her and got her to drink she turned a bright green) (have pictures next post)

 

[Tzimisces]

Pictures prior to 5th dosage

the picture of her in the sand is right before i took her out for her shot. the rest were one before i gave her water and the rest after i gave her some water and she drank some.

 

[kinyonga]

Follicles should show round and eggs oval...but follicles should sit like bunches of grapes and eggs should be in a row....so I'm not sure what's going on.

 

[Tzimisces]

Thank you for your help!! I didnt get a chance to see the xray long because i wanted to get freddy home..but the vet did not say if it was abnormal to see the eggs bunched up like this, and i dont know if she sees many chams. she said she had another egg bound cham just a week before mine and she had to give that one oxy as well. i dont know if that cham lived or not. I really dont know what is going on either. i am not a vet and all i can do is read....but unfortunatly, i am having a hard time finding anything out past what is on this forum. (this seems to be the most honest forum, even blunt and to the point, which is why i like it) i do know that if she doesnt deliver tonight, she will be at the vet first thing in the morning....even if she does deliver them, i will be there, to get another xray to make sure there are none left!

 

[Dali]

eggbound

Get her to vet asap. I have lost 2 veilds to eggbound, both went through surgergy, one never awoke from anesthesia, the other died 2 days after removal. if she is on ground straining she is eggbound for sure..vet ASAP