"Naturalistic Hydration"

[Kaizen]

Good point. However, I don't think many have 50% humidity at 77, nor do I think they are dropping to 59.

Right now it's winter, so heating will lower the humidity come summer alot of folks, will be cooling with AC so again dropping with humidity.

Most folks houses are going to be kept around 70 and 30% - 50% that is the "what humans prefer" range.

My cage gradients from 70-72f with 80%ish at the floor (bioactive) to 85-87f (ambient) at the top with 40% ish.

At night, the top is 62-65, but I don't use screen Cages. The humidity at that time is 60-70%. Again that's the top, so seeing the biggest swing. Lower down, more humidity to 90% plus. Lower down, also sees a drop in temps, down to 58-59, soil wet plants, and being an enclosed cage allow this for me, but it won't happen for most screen keepers.

So, should most screen keepers be using foggers then?

 

[Taylor81]

So, should most screen keepers be using foggers then?

It depends on what you aim to accomplish.

Are there proven methods of husbandry without it, of course there are.

Fogging can accomplish 2 things if done effectively.

1. Upping humidity which aids in water retention for the animal overnight. The less dry the air is the less water evaporates out of their body thru breathing.

2. If fogged heavy enough an actual night hydration cycle for the animal which falls along the lines of what happens to them in the wild.

Number 1 can be accomplished by adding dense foliage and misting just after lights out. Opposed to fogging if not for it.

Number 2 takes a bit more effort to accomplish in what I have learned in my pursuit of "naturalistic hydration"

 

[Taylor81]

So, should most screen keepers be using foggers then?

I'm in no way trying to influence anyone or claim some sort of authority. I'm just speaking from what I've learned in my pursuit of this "naturalistic hydration" so far. As stated above I've only been doing this about a year.

I do still mist quite a bit of course, I keep Parsonii so I dont think I'd ever be bold enough to be to a point to not mist them. I'm just working towards helping their hydration out overall.

 

[JacksJill]

This kind of thread is the reason I stay on this forum. FB format just doesn't support this in-depth discussion. I just want to thank everyone for their contribution.
I have not had any chameleons with URI on either method (knock wood). I only keep one species of Jackson's, T.j.j. I have been cool mist humidifying at night for well over a year and misting very little during the middle of the day, 10-15 seconds only. I do longer sessions at dusk and dawn, 2 minutes, basking light off. All of my mistings are with the basking light off. Only the front and tops of my cages are uncovered screen the rest are covered in PVC sheeting.
My fogging system is run into PVC pipes with a series of holes drilled on one side facing down into the cage. It produces a curtain of fog mid cage rather than a single spot. My females are rather constant about their sleeping spot but my males tend to be more variable.
It is a pain to clean the PVC tubes that run across the tops of each screen enclosure. I probably don't do it as often as I should but I'm not finding much in the way of slime in the pipes. That might be because I only use distilled water and am better about cleaning the humidifiers during water changes.

@cyberlocc it is my understanding that plants only transpire during the day using it as a way to pull nutrients up into the plant at night they use a different mechanism. I know it is likely not a constant for all plants and your plant knowledge eclipses mine. You've mentioned a palm that transpires more than most. Does it do so day and night?

 

[cyberlocc]

@cyberlocc it is my understanding that plants only transpire during the day using it as a way to pull nutrients up into the plant at night they use a different mechanism. I know it is likely not a constant for all plants and your plant knowledge eclipses mine. You've mentioned a palm that transpires more than most. Does it do so day and night?

You are correct, its said most plants only transpire during Photosynthesis however some plants continue to photosynthesize at night, but in a different way. Here is an article about a handful of them.

https://wiki.nurserylive.com/t/top-9-plants-that-absorb-co2-at-night-as-well-best-for-indoors/315

Now in that article we do see this, which is kind of contradictory
"In CAM photosynthesis or Crassulacean-Acid metabolism, the plant opens the stomata at night to minimize water loss. CO2 is acquired at this time and stored in vacuoles as malate."

I bolded, the contradiction open the Stomata is what causes Transpiration, there may be more to it with other plants in the article, than meets the eye that leads to that statement of that I am not sure.

However, one plant in that list does Transpire about the same amount of water 24/7, the Arcea Palm.
You will see this same snippet, plastered everywhere, and I had seen some article long ago (It might have been the study this was from) about the rates, and they were pretty much the same 24 hours a day.

"In NASA's famous research looking at the air-purifying qualities of houseplants, they found that the areca palm filters certain volatile organic compounds (VOCs) from the air. Meanwhile, famed plant scientist Dr. B. C. Wolverton notes that a ~6-foot areca palm can transpire 1 liter of water per 24 hours, thereby making it an effective humidifier – which can help with allergies, colds, or other breathing discomforts that can disrupt sleep."

https://www.treehugger.com/green-home/8-bedroom-plants-improve-your-sleep.html
https://www.hunker.com/12003913/plants-that-add-the-most-moisture-to-the-air

In my own testing, I can confirm this things humidity around it is constantly 100%, it expels an INSANE amount of water, and it uses an insane amount of water as well.
My specimen is only slightly over 2 feet atm, I do think it is raising humidity cage wide, its still fairly small however. When I have a 4 footer, I aim to replace my 4ft Viv with a 6/7 foot (Inside space) to allow it to reach its full 6ft .


However newer articles are starting to say that alot of plants may transpire at night more than we think.

https://www.cell.com/trends/plant-science/pdf/S1360-1385(19)30022-6.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241998
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/143/1/4

 

[Hashtag ChamLife]

Good point. However, I don't think many have 50% humidity at 77, nor do I think they are dropping to 59.

Right now it's winter, so heating will lower the humidity come summer alot of folks, will be cooling with AC so again dropping with humidity.

Most folks houses are going to be kept around 70 and 30% - 50% that is the "what humans prefer" range.

My cage gradients from 70-72f with 80%ish at the floor (bioactive) to 85-87f (ambient) at the top with 40% ish.

At night, the top is 62-65, but I don't use screen Cages. The humidity at that time is 60-70%. Again that's the top, so seeing the biggest swing. Lower down, more humidity to 90% plus. Lower down, also sees a drop in temps, down to 58-59, soil wet plants, and being an enclosed cage allow this for me, but it won't happen for most screen keepers.

Actually this fits my current set up exactly and explains a lot. Not sure why I didn't really put that together as I just brought up this topic to my wife in conversation (shes my sounding board).

In the day time my cham room stays open to the house. Right before lights out (and sun down) I refill the humidifier and fogger, turn them on and open the windows to cool it off. After I'm done with my night routine, the cham room is closed off from the house and "open" to the outdoors (pool lanai off the cham room). So, this has contributed to the MASSIVE amount of nighttime humidity increase.

The last few morning has been quite foggy, aka high humidity from such "drastic" night time temps. I haven't run my fogger/humidifier in a few days as I've had the mite issue.

It's nice to be able to cheat, hehe! Exactly why I follow threads like this, thanks gents!

 

[jcarlsen]

Since I'll be re-doing my cage, I'm eager to implement this more into my routine going forward, and I'd love to hear from anyone in the New England area if they've had any success with this or other methods. My issue has always been cold/dry winters and hot/humid summers. Our apartment gets unlimited heat, but it being forced air dries it out. I already run a whole room humidifier, but on the coldest of winter days I'd be lucky to get the ambient up to 20%, and with nights getting colder/dryer, that fogger would definitely come in handy.

On the flip side, our summers can get ridiculous with humidity, and while I run an AC unit, the room is big enough that I can't really get it below 76 when we're in the middle of a heatwave. I'd love to get a more powerful unit, but our windows only fit small ones. Ah, the price you pay for living in a building built in the 20's and singe pane glass.