My time on the facebook groups.

[salty dog]

I think stagnant humid air would culprit to ri.....possibly a microclimate favored towards warm in a cold house, basement etc.. would require solid sides, cutting off good air flow....... I quite often reference to madagascar weather and alot of the time it is hot and rainy,

 

[bobcochran]

I think Salty was more referring to the just let the fog spray in the center and the cham will find it, than the raising humidity at night.

Being blasted by the fogger, isnt really the same thing as having 100 humidity. You cannot see humidity, you can see the fog. Thats because the fog is water, small particles of water, smaller than that of our misters, but it is still water.

Another words, and correct me if I am misunderstanding salty, Salty is saying if the chameleon decides to sleep right below the fogger tube, and is having that "Fog" water blasted right into its nose, so breathing in the actual white output directly, they will then get water to the lungs which will cause an RI, in humans that can cause Pneumonia right? Water in the lungs?


I also, since you brought it up, really wonder about this high temp and high humidity thing. Hit up your Panthers locale right now, on weather reports, its Wet season. You will see that right now, your Locale is likely dealing with 90-95 degree temperatures AND 90% humidity. That has been 1 stick in my spoke about the "Naturalistic Hydration" methodology. We are talking about the effects of the high humidity at night, and thats good, and Petrs Idea makes a lot of sense. I have plants that are from where Panthers are found, and they require that same 100% humid night, some of them, even create it (Arcea Pam, is a natural humidifier). However, the humidity is not just 100% at night, its 100% 24/7 during the Wet Season.

I wonder, if we have this wrong. Is it really high temps + humidity that causes RI, or is it the Drastic Change in Humidity during High temps that is causing the problem, that is what causes RIs in Humans. I know someone is going to jump me for talking about humans lungs, I know full well Reptiles lungs are said to work differently, however I also question how much research has gone into this High Humidity + High heat thing.

Its one thing to say "Well I put my Panther in a hot hospital bin and fogger blasted it and it got an RI) vs maintain a high humidity and high temp at the same time. Do Outside housed chams get RIs when outside on hot muggy days? And why is a well known RI Cure for alot of reptiles to use a very hot humid bin to cure an RI if it causes an RI?

I know a commercial panther breeder who keeps panthers in a green house. He lives in a much hotter place than I do. He uses a mist system to cool the green house when temps get too high, also runs huge fans in there. To me it is unbearably hot and humid in there. He is continuously dealing with URIs in the summer time, but not in the winter when he has to heat the greenhouse. Your conclusions?
We're all still trying to get this right. And we are doing much better than 25 years ago. I'm sharing my experiences. I've definitely noticed since starting the fogger my panthers drink less water from daytime spray misting than before foggers. I've also cut back on daytime misting and do not experience the URIs I did with young panthers when heavily misted during high daytime temps.
I also understand that these are my interpretations of my experiences.

 

[salty dog]

There is alot of debate to this subject, I personally don't keep humidity up during the day and mist heavily 30 minutes before lights out, every other day, and have not had a problem, it works for me for my set up, I guess for anybody who cares about their chams should pay attention to their chams to find out what works best for them, I am pretty new to this hobby, I'm not an expert, I just pay attention to my chams, and also read and sift through info you veterans put out there for us, I do understand I wouldn't have this hobby as easy if you guys didn't make all the mistakes and make them accessible for anybody who cares about their animals to read, thanks!!

 

[cyberlocc]

I know a commercial panther breeder who keeps panthers in a green house. He lives in a much hotter place than I do. He uses a mist system to cool the green house when temps get too high, also runs huge fans in there. To me it is unbearably hot and humid in there. He is continuously dealing with URIs in the summer time, but not in the winter when he has to heat the greenhouse. Your conclusions?
We're all still trying to get this right. And we are doing much better than 25 years ago. I'm sharing my experiences. I've definitely noticed since starting the fogger my panthers drink less water from daytime spray misting than before foggers. I've also cut back on daytime misting and do not experience the URIs I did with young panthers when heavily misted during high daytime temps.
I also understand that these are my interpretations of my experiences.

Well my conclusion would require the rest of the story.

I'm in alot of groups, for plants. Heated greenhouses are still kept at 100% humidity. High humidity plants still need the humidity whether it's winter or not. Thats actually a very common struggle of greenhouse owners, and a common question.

So I am not sure, of the question. Is the ideal that he doesn't raise the humidity during the winter? If he does, than Saltys point has more standing, which was the other reason I have also thought as possible.

In your Winter vs Summer theorium we have different factors at play.

In the Summer, the heat is coming from the roof of the greenhouse, and since the roof is what is heating it, there is no escape, isnt that why attics are a thing? And summer cooling is needed. The chimney effect fails in this situation.

In the winter, we see him artificially heating his greenhouse. Now we have a chimney effect, since the heat is starting at the bottom, and rising so is the air. So the air is being exchanged at a much faster rate than it would in the summer isn't it? Hot air rises, and prevents the air from being stagnant. Even just the air being moved, should help with stagnation, I think, maybe.

A good test to this theory, that you friend could try, is to add a ceiling fan to his Greenhouse. This would keep air moving, which would help prevent stagnation, it would also be beneficial in the winter to keep heat in, and cool some in the winter.

We see this play out with some Neps and Orchids. They want 100% humidity at all times, they also want high heat, and they also want Ventilation and will perish from stagnant air. I have seen growers of some, use waterproof fans in the pretty much sealed Vivarium to prevent stagnation, and it seems to work?

To be clear, I am not Knocking the Fogging at night thing at all, or thinking it doesn't work. It makes sense that it would work. The theory makes complete sense.

The theory that high humidity plus high temps, or that misting during the day causes RIs is what baffles me. That makes no logical sense, seeing where Panthers hail from.

 

[bobcochran]

I know a commercial panther breeder who keeps panthers in a green house. He lives in a much hotter place than I do. He uses a mist system to cool the green house when temps get too high, also runs huge fans in there. To me it is unbearably hot and humid in there. He is continuously dealing with URIs in the summer time, but not in the winter when he has to heat the greenhouse. Your conclusions?
We're all still trying to get this right. And we are doing much better than 25 years ago. I'm sharing my experiences. I've definitely noticed since starting the fogger my panthers drink less water from daytime spray misting than before foggers. I've also cut back on daytime misting and do not experience the URIs I did with young panthers when heavily misted during high daytime temps.
I also understand that these are my interpretations of my experiences.

I think Salty was more referring to the just let the fog spray in the center and the cham will find it, than the raising humidity at night.

Being blasted by the fogger, isnt really the same thing as having 100 humidity. You cannot see humidity, you can see the fog. Thats because the fog is water, small particles of water, smaller than that of our misters, but it is still water.

Another words, and correct me if I am misunderstanding salty, Salty is saying if the chameleon decides to sleep right below the fogger tube, and is having that "Fog" water blasted right into its nose, so breathing in the actual white output directly, they will then get water to the lungs which will cause an RI, in humans that can cause Pneumonia right? Water in the lungs?


I also, since you brought it up, really wonder about this high temp and high humidity thing. Hit up your Panthers locale right now, on weather reports, its Wet season. You will see that right now, your Locale is likely dealing with 90-95 degree temperatures AND 90% humidity. That has been 1 stick in my spoke about the "Naturalistic Hydration" methodology. We are talking about the effects of the high humidity at night, and thats good, and Petrs Idea makes a lot of sense. I have plants that are from where Panthers are found, and they require that same 100% humid night, some of them, even create it (Arcea Pam, is a natural humidifier). However, the humidity is not just 100% at night, its 100% 24/7 during the Wet Season.

I wonder, if we have this wrong. Is it really high temps + humidity that causes RI, or is it the Drastic Change in Humidity during High temps that is causing the problem, that is what causes RIs in Humans. I know someone is going to jump me for talking about humans lungs, I know full well Reptiles lungs are said to work differently, however I also question how much research has gone into this High Humidity + High heat thing.

Its one thing to say "Well I put my Panther in a hot hospital bin and fogger blasted it and it got an RI) vs maintain a high humidity and high temp at the same time. Do Outside housed chams get RIs when outside on hot muggy days? And why is a well known RI Cure for alot of reptiles to use a very hot humid bin to cure an RI if it causes an RI?

I understand what you are saying. I very often check the temps for my montanes in their natural habitat. Truthfully, we will never be able to recreate everything there. We do the best we can. Madagascar is an island with the normal east to west jet stream off the Indian ocean. I completely agree no matter how many fans you have in a green house it's not "fresh air". We all do what works for us in our individual and varied locales. I believe it's good to get all perspective ideas and husbandry out there.

 

[bobcochran]

Well my conclusion would require the rest of the story.

I'm in alot of groups, for plants. Heated greenhouses are still kept at 100% humidity. High humidity plants still need the humidity whether it's winter or not. Thats actually a very common struggle of greenhouse owners, and a common question.

So I am not sure, of the question. Is the ideal that he doesn't raise the humidity during the winter? If he does, than Saltys point has more standing, which was the other reason I have also thought as possible.

In your Winter vs Summer theorium we have different factors at play.

In the Summer, the heat is coming from the roof of the greenhouse, and since the roof is what is heating it, there is no escape, isnt that why attics are a thing? And summer cooling is needed. The chimney effect fails in this situation.

In the winter, we see him artificially heating his greenhouse. Now we have a chimney effect, since the heat is starting at the bottom, and rising so is the air. So the air is being exchanged at a much faster rate than it would in the summer isn't it? Hot air rises, and prevents the air from being stagnant. Even just the air being moved, should help with stagnation, I think, maybe.

A good test to this theory, that you friend could try, is to add a ceiling fan to his Greenhouse. This would keep air moving, which would help prevent stagnation, it would also be beneficial in the winter to keep heat in, and cool some in the winter.

We see this play out with some Neps and Orchids. They want 100% humidity at all times, they also want high heat, and they also want Ventilation and will perish from stagnant air. I have seen growers of some, use waterproof fans in the pretty much sealed Vivarium to prevent stagnation, and it seems to work?

To be clear, I am not Knocking the Fogging at night thing at all, or thinking it doesn't work. It makes sense that it would work. The theory makes complete sense.

The theory that high humidity plus high temps, or that misting during the day causes RIs is what baffles me. That makes no logical sense, seeing where Panthers hail from.

The point I was making is artificial heating in the winter dries the daytime air. Misting is then just for drinking not cooling. His daytime humidty is much lower in the winter. The green house is a closed system. Not exactly Madagascar.

 

[bobcochran]

The point I was making is artificial heating in the winter dries the daytime air. Misting is then just for drinking not cooling. His daytime humidty is much lower in the winter. The green house is a closed system. Not exactly Madagascar.

This is good conversation, but I have to stop now

 

[cyberlocc]

The point I was making is artificial heating in the winter dries the daytime air. Misting is then just for drinking not cooling. His daytime humidty is much lower in the winter. The green house is a closed system. Not exactly Madagascar.

Right, I get that's it's a closed system. However the premise was, in my question, that Greenhouses used for plants humidity is not lower, they are still 100%, as they are designed to be kept at 100% even when being heated. That's the challenge with hearing a greenhouse.

If his isn't as it's just for Chams, than that changes everything .

 

[bobcochran]

Right, I get that's it's a closed system. However the premise was, in my question, that Greenhouses used for plants humidity is not lower, they are still 100%, as they are designed to be kept at 100% even when being heated. That's the challenge with hearing a greenhouse.

If his isn't as it's just for Chams, than that changes everything .

 

[bobcochran]

You're right, it is just for panthers and the humidity isn't controlled. The green house is closed when it's too hot and too cold.

 

[DeremensisBlue]

I am going to start another thread on this titled Naturalistic Humidity. It is a big topic worth discussing so it may as well be under a title that is accurate and searchable.