My Jackson will barely use his tongue for eating now...

P

Phinfan31

New Member
So its been approx. 1 month since I left my cham at home. My wife has been taking care of him - and admittedly...shes better at it than I am with a busy work schedule.

I have absolutely no concerns about how well she has been taking care of him. With multiple times during the day feeding him water, spraying down his cage, and each day feeding him several crickets or mealworms.

Lately he has been not using his tongue though...she said she has to bring the crickets or worms right next to his face for him to want to eat....when she lets them roam freely she notices he has a really hard time ----shooting his tongue only a couple inches out and missing them.

I told her to video record him doing this so I could ask you all for advice prior to her going to the vet. As you can see in this video - something looks wrong. Does anybody have any ideas as to why his tongue is not shooting out the 4-6 inches it used to?

Could lighting affect this?
Diet?
Powdered vitamins or lack thereof?

For now shes been feeding him right next to his mouth....


Info: Cage is perfectly fine, temperature is controlled and humid because we live in Hawaii. He eats crickets/meal worms/silk worms. As great as she is with giving him water/food...she is actually pretty negligent when it comes to powdering his food with additional nutrients. She does gutload the crickets however...there have been no other issues ever since we got him approx. 1 year ago...so this is a new development and no prior history with anything.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!! Do you guys think he should be taken to a vet? What would the cost be?

Aloha

http://tinypic.com/r/1zczvok/8

Video of him eating...
 
Lighting and prey dusting can affect tongue functionality. Assuming he did not sustain an injury to his tongue, my guess would be this is the first manifestation of metabolic bone disease or a similar condition. One of the vets on here could probably give you a more informed answer.

Do you have a UVB light on him? If so, do you replace it every six months? Could you elaborate on your lighting/dusting regimen (eg, brand of bulb, how long since you've replaced it, brand of calcium powder/vitamins, with or without D3, how often you dust his food)?
 
Hello fellow Jackson keeper.

The one year mark is pretty telling for Jacksons, as it is the time when you can tell whether they're going to live long term or not. At about one year, if their care has not been on point, that's the time it tends to show.

From experience I say that the lack of tongue function is due to calcium deficiency. Calcium not only is needed for the bones, but also the muscles as well i.e the ability to use the tongue as it was intended.

Has your wife been dusting his food with plain calcium, at the very least, twice a week? What foods has she been gut loading his crickets with? Has he had access to natural UV rays, i.e the sun? If not, have you guys kept up with the proper changing out of your old UV lights with new ones, every couple of months? I suspect that the answer lies somewhere in these questions, as I had a one year old Jacksons a few years ago that quickly deteriorated once he stopped using his tongue properly….…
 
I really appreciate the feedback from all of you.

So to answer your questions:

1 - He has been fed gut loaded crickets that are fed with Flukers "all purpose" orange cubes. I've been told numerous times on here that this is not enough - and so I purchased the calcium and began dusting the crickets several months ago. However, she apparently has not been doing this - so hes been off the dust for 1 month. Keep in mind that I only dusted for approx. 2-3 months prior to leaving...so he went many, many months without it before.

2 - His UVB bulb was not replaced, its the old original one we purchased nearly a year ago. Seemed to be working fine.....but before hearing your answers I told her to do 3 things out of intuition - REPLACE the bulb (she just purchased a new UVB100, 13W bulb), I told her to buy NEW orange flukers cubes, and also to start dusting IMMEDIATELY....so hopefully were on track to some reversal of all this.

I have emphasized dozens of times...literally...how important it is that she gives him 8 hours of this UVB light MINIMUM each day...but she never listens. Finally perhaps she will. She was under the false impression that him being next to the window in hawaii would be good enough - she also seems to think he has a "bedtime" at 5pm which is nonsense....perhaps now she will finally listen to me.

I will do more research and I appreciate the link provided. Will report back if I have any good signs or will ask for more advice. Any idea on how long it would take to see the reversal of these symptoms??

Thanks again guys.

Aloha
 
It doesn't sound like MBD. It seems as it was caused by the lack of calcium/vitamins and your UV lights.
What UV brand do you use? Most are recommended to be replaced every 6 months. I would recommend you go to lightyourreptiles.com. I highly recommend their Arcadia bulbs( last a year :))
I'd say it's a lack of Vit. A, can be fixed. Get on a good dusting schedule and it will help keep him healthy.
On a side note I would also recommend you switch from those orange cubes to some Bug Buffet. Cost more but it's better for insect food witch means better for your cham, and WELL worth it.
Good luck :)
 
Brand for our light is Exo Terra. Thanks for the help. Will consider what you recommended when I get back home.
 
Some things to keep in mind for UVB that are not immediately intuitive (not to me anyway):

1) Those stupid tubes lose their UVB output in ~6 months. They still work fine though, they just stop outputting UVB with no visible change. I'm actually glad I logged in here today because it reminded me it's about time for me to swap out mine again.

2) Sunlight through a window filters out the UVB rays.

If you're located in Hawaii, you could consider building him some sort of pen outdoors. Natural light is better than UVB anyway.

Good luck! As long as he's still eating, I'd imagine he can make a recovery, though I'm not sure how much tongue function he'll regain. I think the important thing is to make sure you correct the issue so you don't see any progression of symptoms. This is where contacting a vet could be helpful, as I'm not sure exactly how a calcium deficiency would affect the tongue mechanism, only that it can.
 
Phinfan31 said:
I really appreciate the feedback from all of you.

So to answer your questions:

1 - He has been fed gut loaded crickets that are fed with Flukers "all purpose" orange cubes. I've been told numerous times on here that this is not enough - and so I purchased the calcium and began dusting the crickets several months ago. However, she apparently has not been doing this - so hes been off the dust for 1 month. Keep in mind that I only dusted for approx. 2-3 months prior to leaving...so he went many, many months without it before.

2 - His UVB bulb was not replaced, its the old original one we purchased nearly a year ago. Seemed to be working fine.....but before hearing your answers I told her to do 3 things out of intuition - REPLACE the bulb (she just purchased a new UVB100, 13W bulb), I told her to buy NEW orange flukers cubes, and also to start dusting IMMEDIATELY....so hopefully were on track to some reversal of all this.

I have emphasized dozens of times...literally...how important it is that she gives him 8 hours of this UVB light MINIMUM each day...but she never listens. Finally perhaps she will. She was under the false impression that him being next to the window in hawaii would be good enough - she also seems to think he has a "bedtime" at 5pm which is nonsense....perhaps now she will finally listen to me.

I will do more research and I appreciate the link provided. Will report back if I have any good signs or will ask for more advice. Any idea on how long it would take to see the reversal of these symptoms??

Thanks again guys.

Aloha
Click to expand...

1) STOP gutloading with orange cube. They are absolutely garbage! Until you get some bug buffet, repashy bug burger, etc you're better off using collard, turnip or mustard greens along with an apple or some other fruit….

2) At this point a bulb might not do the trick. Like i said in my previous post, i had a Jacksons that had the exact same symptoms as the one in your video. The BEST thing you can do right now is take him outside for some natural sunlight as much as possible. The UV output of the sun is leagues better than any bulb available on the market.

RonG said:
m some sort of pen outdoors. Natural light is better than UVB anyway.

Good luck! As long as he's still eating, I'd imagine he can make a recovery, though I'm not sure how much tongue function he'll regain. I think the important thing is to make sure you correct the issue so you don't see any progression of symptoms. This is where contacting a vet could be helpful, as I'm not sure exactly how a calcium deficiency would affect the tongue mechanism, only that it can.
Click to expand...

Calcium is needed for proper muscular function. His Jacksons also looks like he's having a hard time keeping his balance while shooting at his prey too.
 
Masked Gecko said:
It doesn't sound like MBD. It seems as it was caused by the lack of calcium/vitamins and your UV lights.
Click to expand...

Um...MBD is triggered because of the lack of calcium/vitamins and UVB...or maybe I misunderstood your comment?

Be very careful adding extra Vit. A especially for a montane species. It is very easy to overdose and montane chams are extra sensitive to fat soluable vitamins.

I think the improvements to his care will help a lot, so maybe you've turned the corner.
 
Last edited:
Unlikely vitamin A has anything to do with this. Vitamin A affects epithelial cells. A lack will cause glands to dry up and ducts to clog, it doesn't stop tongue muscles. Calcium stops muscles. They can't work without it and these chameleon tongues are especially prone because they have hyper-contractile muscles and muscles that undergo a great deal of stretching. I do wonder if calcium deficiency then leads to major trauma and that is why many do not recover after the calcium is corrected.
 
Carlton said:
Um...MBD is triggered because of the lack of calcium/vitamins and UVB...or maybe I misunderstood your comment?

Be very careful adding extra Vit. A especially for a montane species. It is very easy to overdose and montane chams are extra sensitive to fat soluable vitamins.

I think the improvements to his care will help a lot, so maybe you've turned the corner.
Click to expand...

Yes I know the causes of MBD, my reply was in response to a previous comment about MBD.
 
I still wonder about calcium. The hypercontractile muscles that are needed to shoot that tongue out of the mouth are not working well. It could be trauma or infection but calcium is the most common cause. Hopefully he is turning a corner. At least he is still trying.I would continue with recommended calcium/ D3 supplements. Maybe hand feed a while and let the muscles rest while you work on calcium intake.
 
I would stay away from the D3 supplementation. It can easily kill a Jacksons. Just keep supplementing with plain calcium (which a well hydrated chameleon cannot over dose on as it's water soluble) and take him outside for a few hours a week for some natural powerful UV ala The Sun. His body will generate all the D3 it needs, and you won't have to worry about over supplementing.
 
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