My Guy is in Trouble

[Caeruleus]

I’ve had my male panther for a year now and overall things have gone well. I got him when he was (supposedly) a year old from a breeder in Florida so he should now be 2. He’s been in great shape and vibrant until I asked the people at my reptile store if he would like flying prey, and they advised me on hatching BSFL. Oh my, he was JAZZED about having flying bugs in his enclosure and ate them preferentially over the usual dubias and crickets. I started to notice that he was looking a little skinnier but he was lively and enjoying the flies so I let that be his only food source most days (5-10 would hatch daily). Now I think he’s in big trouble. He lost his vibrant color but I chalked it up to thinking he might shed. I have his water set to drip daily while I’m at work so I haven’t observed him drinking in the last few weeks but his poops still have white urates. I am unable to spend the $500 on a fecal panel that the reptile vet quoted me about 10 months ago when he developed a respiratory infection (I didn’t know the difference between cold humidity and hot humidity but after adjusting his lights/misting and a round of antibiotics, he’s never had that problem again). I have Critical Carnivore being delivered tomorrow. He is slow and kind of clumsy with his tongue (new problem). His grip strength is still good and he doesn’t have bone problems. I faithfully gut-load crickets and dubias with daily Bug Burger and a salad mix that my reptile store makes, and dust them 1x/week with vitamin D and several times/week with calcium. His UV bulb tests good. I also offer silkworms, hornworms, and every once in awhile, wax worms. What do you recommend as far as turning this guy’s weight loss around? This is him today.

 

[Caeruleus]

This was him on March 1st. I started feeding him the black soldier flies at the end of March.

 

[Caeruleus]

May 2nd

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. I’m sorry that your guy isn’t doing well. Under the circumstances, the best way to try to determine what may be happening is to do a full husbandry review. The bits you provided just aren’t enough info to go by. Copy and paste with your answers please. If you could include some pics of his enclosure, including lights and all, that is a huge help too.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Carlton]

IMHO as a 2 year old, he was quite lean before you started feeding the flies. Look at the before photos showing his casque. It was concave, not full. Something was probably going on already. Be careful. Hoping to pin the "blame" on a new feeder is easy, but it's also simplistic...low hanging fruit.

Please flesh out more of your husbandry details.

Has he ever been tested for parasites? He could have a belly full that's been getting more out of his food than he has. What might be a tolerable parasite load can gain the upper hand on a host while it is fighting an infection (his previous RI). New and different food won't get rid of them. It will feed them. Now due to exhausted reserves, treatment may be harder on him. You may have fewer options that are safer.

Hard to imagine a fecal float would cost $500! What other testing did the vet recommend at that time? Unfortunately, so often it's a matter of pay now or pay later.

Here's hoping the experts here can help. Good luck with him, he's beautiful!

 

[Nal0114]

I’ve had my male panther for a year now and overall things have gone well. I got him when he was (supposedly) a year old from a breeder in Florida so he should now be 2. He’s been in great shape and vibrant until I asked the people at my reptile store if he would like flying prey, and they advised me on hatching BSFL. Oh my, he was JAZZED about having flying bugs in his enclosure and ate them preferentially over the usual dubias and crickets. I started to notice that he was looking a little skinnier but he was lively and enjoying the flies so I let that be his only food source most days (5-10 would hatch daily). Now I think he’s in big trouble. He lost his vibrant color but I chalked it up to thinking he might shed. I have his water set to drip daily while I’m at work so I haven’t observed him drinking in the last few weeks but his poops still have white urates. I am unable to spend the $500 on a fecal panel that the reptile vet quoted me about 10 months ago when he developed a respiratory infection (I didn’t know the difference between cold humidity and hot humidity but after adjusting his lights/misting and a round of antibiotics, he’s never had that problem again). I have Critical Carnivore being delivered tomorrow. He is slow and kind of clumsy with his tongue (new problem). His grip strength is still good and he doesn’t have bone problems. I faithfully gut-load crickets and dubias with daily Bug Burger and a salad mix that my reptile store makes, and dust them 1x/week with vitamin D and several times/week with calcium. His UV bulb tests good. I also offer silkworms, hornworms, and every once in awhile, wax worms. What do you recommend as far as turning this guy’s weight loss around? This is him today.

I would take him to the vet get labs and a fecal done.

 

[kinyonga]

Your chameleon needs serious help from a good chameleon vet asap…right away IMHO.

 

[MissSkittles]

@Caeruleus you haven’t responded to any of us. I’m just wondering how your guy is faring? Have you taken him to a vet?

 

[Caeruleus]

I have not compiled the complete husbandry details that you requested. The reptile vet will be in Wed through Sat this week. Hoping to catch a morning poo to take with me for the fecal float and that the problem is easily diagnosed and treatable. He drank today and was keenly following the BSF that hatched overnight, and I think I heard the sound of his tongue striking a couple of times today. He ignored the dubias, a wax worm covered in Critical Care Carnivore and a silkworm, but it was after I handled him. I didn’t have the heart to try to force feed him the CC Carnivore without knowing what’s going on with him. I don’t want to further stress ot hurt him.

 

[MissSkittles]

dust them 1x/week with vitamin D and several times/week with calcium

The main area I was curious about is your supplementation. You should be dusting lightly at every feeding with a phosphorus-free calcium without D3. Then, while there are different ways to provide them, he needs not just a calcium without D3, but also a multivitamin with both being given twice per month (or every other week if you prefer). The easiest way to do this is to use a combination product of multivitamin and D3. The two that we suggest is either Repashy calcium Plus Load or ReptiVite with D3. Both contain preformed vitamin A, which we know chameleons are able to utilize vs preformed vitamin A. So calcium every feeding except one feeding every other week or twice per month when you would use one of the combination multivitamin/D3 products.
Additionally, vitamin D3 is a fat soluble vitamin, meaning it isn’t excreted quickly and can build up to toxic levels. While I doubt that your guy has toxic D3 levels, he has been getting twice as much as he should.
As has already been said, parasites are always a concern and very suspect for your guy. Fecal checks are usually done in house and cost around $50-60 or so. They can send it out to a lab, but that should not cost anywhere close to $500. If they are adding basic blood work (CBC, CMP) to that, then I would expect a cost nearer to a few hundred $$.
I hope your vet can get it figured out and help get him recovered. Do keep us posted on how he’s doing. You can have all of your husbandry reviewed if you like - it never hurts to double check having everything correct. However, my main concern was supplements. My secondary is wondering how exactly you feed him.

 

[Nal0114]

My fingers are crossed for your little guy .

Idk where you’re located so I know everywhere is different. When I sent labs out for my chameleon and snake it was about $250. I did pay for the most expensive panel as well. I am located in SE TN.

Some chameleons just don’t like some bugs. Like my boy won’t touch a superworm. I’d try something like hornworms. Idk what it is about them but reptiles go crazy.