Elizadolots
New Member
Really cold and dry is what glass is made for.
My dumb friend
- Thread starter wsbishop91
- Start date
fluxlizard
Avid Member
I kind of steer clear of conversations like this, but I'm going to back up what kinyonga said here and offer my own experience.
20 years ago I started out by keeping and breeding chams in aquarium tanks because that is what the person who sold me my first few pairs of chameleons was using as well. I never had a single problem with my chameleons that I attributed to the tank. They were some of the healthiest chameleons I have ever had and it showed. I bred a few kinds of chameleons in the tanks (veileds, panthers, carpets, campani, montiums, quadricornis, jacksons) successfully. I had long-lived and very healthy looking chameleons.
I won't mention names but certain individuals took over publishing of *the* chameleon newsletter of the time and when they did, they took over control of most of the information published in that newsletter (lot of control- most articles on husbandry experiences by other authors vanished) and at the same time they pushed screen cages super hard for several years, and promoted the opinion that anything else was unethical and unhealthy. Basically anyone with a different experience in the community was told to sit down and shut up.
To me, that view always smacked of both superstition (magical caging miraculously necessary for these lizards) and politics (unwillingness to consider other views on the matter because of one's own agenda/reputation).
All that said, I did eventually switch over to screen enclosures by the late 90s for the following reasons-
Screen is cheaper- you can build much larger for much less than most aquaria. I now prefer to see my lizards in larger cages than I did in those days. I like to think my lizards prefer it too.
Also screen can be hauled outside into the yard for the summer and used indoors during the winter.
Anyone who keeps any diurnal lizard in a glass tank hopefully can realise that it is perfectly possible to set up proper thermo-regulatory opportunities in such a tank and that reasonable airflow can be achieved for other arboreal species from similar habitats to chameleons (day geckos for example would come from very similar micro-climates to chameleons and are kept in glass tanks all the time).
Avoiding too much moisture is simple. Paper substrate, mist gently once or twice per day enough that it evaporates within an hour or two and provide a drip system for drinking that collects into a catch bowl that is emptied and cleaned daily.
20 years ago I started out by keeping and breeding chams in aquarium tanks because that is what the person who sold me my first few pairs of chameleons was using as well. I never had a single problem with my chameleons that I attributed to the tank. They were some of the healthiest chameleons I have ever had and it showed. I bred a few kinds of chameleons in the tanks (veileds, panthers, carpets, campani, montiums, quadricornis, jacksons) successfully. I had long-lived and very healthy looking chameleons.
I won't mention names but certain individuals took over publishing of *the* chameleon newsletter of the time and when they did, they took over control of most of the information published in that newsletter (lot of control- most articles on husbandry experiences by other authors vanished) and at the same time they pushed screen cages super hard for several years, and promoted the opinion that anything else was unethical and unhealthy. Basically anyone with a different experience in the community was told to sit down and shut up.
To me, that view always smacked of both superstition (magical caging miraculously necessary for these lizards) and politics (unwillingness to consider other views on the matter because of one's own agenda/reputation).
All that said, I did eventually switch over to screen enclosures by the late 90s for the following reasons-
Screen is cheaper- you can build much larger for much less than most aquaria. I now prefer to see my lizards in larger cages than I did in those days. I like to think my lizards prefer it too.
Also screen can be hauled outside into the yard for the summer and used indoors during the winter.
Anyone who keeps any diurnal lizard in a glass tank hopefully can realise that it is perfectly possible to set up proper thermo-regulatory opportunities in such a tank and that reasonable airflow can be achieved for other arboreal species from similar habitats to chameleons (day geckos for example would come from very similar micro-climates to chameleons and are kept in glass tanks all the time).
Avoiding too much moisture is simple. Paper substrate, mist gently once or twice per day enough that it evaporates within an hour or two and provide a drip system for drinking that collects into a catch bowl that is emptied and cleaned daily.
Glad you posted fluxlizard! Its good to hear someone else has had the same experiences with the glass cages that I had!
I switched to cages that had 3 glass sides and glass floor with a screen door and lid and found it difficult to keep the humidity and temperatures right. (I live in Ontario, BTW).
I switched to cages that had 3 glass sides and glass floor with a screen door and lid and found it difficult to keep the humidity and temperatures right. (I live in Ontario, BTW).
Ace
Avid Member
i have nothing against using glass encloures. i did make the mistake of assuming the person and where he was located not a major issue, but for now one should consider...i never implied glass tanks were bad to use. And as Elizadots said, mite as well use what you have. i guess since i live in California, screen cages seem more fit than glass at first thought and also the "new keeper" seem to overheat chams in glass with lack of knowledge and research.. However its true it helps with keeping heat and humidty up.
I hope your friend is doing well with his cham and has the proper set up with the glass tank
I hope your friend is doing well with his cham and has the proper set up with the glass tank
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Just want to say I'm with Kinyonga on this one.
Aquariums can be made to work. Screen is NOT always the best option. Construction materials are not the key, the key is maintaining the correct environment within the cage, Whatever is used.
Aquariums can be made to work. Screen is NOT always the best option. Construction materials are not the key, the key is maintaining the correct environment within the cage, Whatever is used.
laurie
Retired Moderator
I want to say thanks, to Kinyonga, Fluxlizard & Sandrachameleon. The three of you have explained perfectly why I always want to know where people are located and what chameleon & age of cham we are talking about before I like to offer advice. There are some easy things to offer, but most people don't take some of the important variables into consideration. jmo
StormBlaze
New Member
Glass or Screen ..My opinion
OK I realize as a newbie to the chams site , I risk running into crap ..but here goes , I've survived being of Scottish descent and being a deep Southerner as to add to it , if I can survive 30 yrs of that , I'll make it ..lol
First let me say I have 2 herps and I do have an advantage of education , I have an Associates in Biology and Animal Handling and a Minors Cert in Farm Management + 10 yrs living on a farm surrounded by every beast known to man at one point or another . Gem is a happy , healthy, Australian Bearded Dragon and she is going on almost 5 yrs old now . She was my first real reptile and I was really nervous . Then about another year later I decided to go 1 up a little harder , at least from my POV & I bought Warf , who is my male Veiled Chameleon , who is now almost 4 yrs old . Having them has been an awesome experience . But in its inception , I personally made a point to research the crap out of as best I could the details of the husbandry and keeping of small herps & like ( most ) I would hope, really research , talk, ask questions , and do their best to keep their new friend as comfortable & healthy as possible. So I definitely believe in studying & challenging your self for an " ideal " set up what really comes down to time and aesthetic . I even spent some time asking questions off professional herp keepers , zoos , rescues , etc. And yes I was warned and told of all the dangers of " doing it wrong " . Well, I made the choice to house them both in glass terrariums or modified aquariums and set it up because I was going for a different idea , I wanted mine to look more like the zoo viewing set up and professional. And I can say for me its worked just fine by viewing them , their pics, and their behavior. The screens are on top and vented , ( air flow issue ) they are glass ( nothing for them to get " caught on " on tear a toe or tail lose on, they have even proper lighting ( UV light, basking, and red night light ) w/ no fans running . And in my experience , they have never suffered any ill effects.
Its been my experience that if you choose to do something different than whats normally accepted - you do have to go in knowing that its a risk and watch & study carefully to see if that's going to work for you .or your reptile .
If you notice bad side effects, or a bad reaction to what your doing - obviously your going to have to fix it . But I spent tons of time reading and putting the cash & time into setting up right and I spent many sleepless nights watching & planning carefully . The lighting in a glass set up does have to be just so ..I use sifted sand as my substrate ( no standing water or smell ) and I mist them 2x pd for Gem and 3x pd for Warf and it evaporates just fine and they get plenty of water . Because I have the time ( I work partially at home ) I don't mind cleaning the glass and that's extra time I use to take them out & hang with them anyways . I live in the Sonora Desert ( Phoenix AZ ) and I have never had trouble w/ ventilation or trouble w/ them breathing or keeping their temps right . Alot of it just paying attention . I have an AC in the summer to keep air moving and I turn their lights down in Spring/Summer so don't get too hot. As far as the whole " Reflection " issue goes I have never had them wig out or get freaked when they saw their reflection or injure themselves at seeing themselves , I will say though after 7P at night I do cover the sides of the tanks to keep out house hold light and to keep from being bothered by the TV light & motion..Cause I could see how I would be annoyed at living next to a " constant movie theater going " while I was trying to sleep. The key is in research and doing what is comfortable for 1st the animal and 2nd comfortable for you . If you don't want to put the time and effort & research into housing yours in a glass tank don't do it . If your that worried about your level of experience and how its going to go - don't do it . And if you don't have the cash to fix it fairly quickly if it doesn't seem to be going well for the Lil guy - don't do it. I believe some are better off in screen cages because it does make it easier for a newbie to herp keeping to handle, clean , and to get comfortable with new creature added to the family. Personally I believe that glass set ups look nicer but that just me . Mine have never had any trouble , never been sick , and never reacted badly. But you do have to take the time and decide whats best for you & them and ultimately in the end its up to you . In animals there are caveats to every action so I'd say if your willing to invest the time , attention , real study totally then go ahead w/ glass . If not , then go ahead and by all means use a traditional screen set up . I don't think either 1 over the other makes you a " bad " herp parent ..if you noticed a prob then ignored it that would be bad herp parenting. So anyways , that's my 2 cents . Decide for yourself and try new things but be prepared & educate the crap out of yourself and be sure to plan if you find yourself needing a plan " B ".
OK I realize as a newbie to the chams site , I risk running into crap ..but here goes , I've survived being of Scottish descent and being a deep Southerner as to add to it , if I can survive 30 yrs of that , I'll make it ..lol
First let me say I have 2 herps and I do have an advantage of education , I have an Associates in Biology and Animal Handling and a Minors Cert in Farm Management + 10 yrs living on a farm surrounded by every beast known to man at one point or another . Gem is a happy , healthy, Australian Bearded Dragon and she is going on almost 5 yrs old now . She was my first real reptile and I was really nervous . Then about another year later I decided to go 1 up a little harder , at least from my POV & I bought Warf , who is my male Veiled Chameleon , who is now almost 4 yrs old . Having them has been an awesome experience . But in its inception , I personally made a point to research the crap out of as best I could the details of the husbandry and keeping of small herps & like ( most ) I would hope, really research , talk, ask questions , and do their best to keep their new friend as comfortable & healthy as possible. So I definitely believe in studying & challenging your self for an " ideal " set up what really comes down to time and aesthetic . I even spent some time asking questions off professional herp keepers , zoos , rescues , etc. And yes I was warned and told of all the dangers of " doing it wrong " . Well, I made the choice to house them both in glass terrariums or modified aquariums and set it up because I was going for a different idea , I wanted mine to look more like the zoo viewing set up and professional. And I can say for me its worked just fine by viewing them , their pics, and their behavior. The screens are on top and vented , ( air flow issue ) they are glass ( nothing for them to get " caught on " on tear a toe or tail lose on, they have even proper lighting ( UV light, basking, and red night light ) w/ no fans running . And in my experience , they have never suffered any ill effects.
Its been my experience that if you choose to do something different than whats normally accepted - you do have to go in knowing that its a risk and watch & study carefully to see if that's going to work for you .or your reptile .
If you notice bad side effects, or a bad reaction to what your doing - obviously your going to have to fix it . But I spent tons of time reading and putting the cash & time into setting up right and I spent many sleepless nights watching & planning carefully . The lighting in a glass set up does have to be just so ..I use sifted sand as my substrate ( no standing water or smell ) and I mist them 2x pd for Gem and 3x pd for Warf and it evaporates just fine and they get plenty of water . Because I have the time ( I work partially at home ) I don't mind cleaning the glass and that's extra time I use to take them out & hang with them anyways . I live in the Sonora Desert ( Phoenix AZ ) and I have never had trouble w/ ventilation or trouble w/ them breathing or keeping their temps right . Alot of it just paying attention . I have an AC in the summer to keep air moving and I turn their lights down in Spring/Summer so don't get too hot. As far as the whole " Reflection " issue goes I have never had them wig out or get freaked when they saw their reflection or injure themselves at seeing themselves , I will say though after 7P at night I do cover the sides of the tanks to keep out house hold light and to keep from being bothered by the TV light & motion..Cause I could see how I would be annoyed at living next to a " constant movie theater going " while I was trying to sleep. The key is in research and doing what is comfortable for 1st the animal and 2nd comfortable for you . If you don't want to put the time and effort & research into housing yours in a glass tank don't do it . If your that worried about your level of experience and how its going to go - don't do it . And if you don't have the cash to fix it fairly quickly if it doesn't seem to be going well for the Lil guy - don't do it. I believe some are better off in screen cages because it does make it easier for a newbie to herp keeping to handle, clean , and to get comfortable with new creature added to the family. Personally I believe that glass set ups look nicer but that just me . Mine have never had any trouble , never been sick , and never reacted badly. But you do have to take the time and decide whats best for you & them and ultimately in the end its up to you . In animals there are caveats to every action so I'd say if your willing to invest the time , attention , real study totally then go ahead w/ glass . If not , then go ahead and by all means use a traditional screen set up . I don't think either 1 over the other makes you a " bad " herp parent ..if you noticed a prob then ignored it that would be bad herp parenting. So anyways , that's my 2 cents . Decide for yourself and try new things but be prepared & educate the crap out of yourself and be sure to plan if you find yourself needing a plan " B ".
Elizadolots
New Member
Hey, Storm... a minor suggestion....double space between paragraphs, or something...that big block of text is almost unreadable.
A long time ago I took a class on technical writing and there was an example:
7574819632
How easy would that be to remember?
.
.
.
.
(757) 481-9632
Is that easier?
Format is important.
A long time ago I took a class on technical writing and there was an example:
7574819632
How easy would that be to remember?
.
.
.
.
(757) 481-9632
Is that easier?
Format is important.
