moving abroad with chameleons a good idea?

[op17]

We are moving abroad. is it a good idea to take my 2 panthers with me?
Does anybody know if there is any restriction on take animals with you on an airplane? or where to look for the info? what kind of paper work do i need to file?
They are young panthers by the way, about 5 months old. we'd like to take them to east asia by the way. typical flight from east coast to east asia + check in time and transfer is about 20+ hours. which shouldn't be too long since people here ship chameleons over night domestically all the time.

any thing will be appreciated

 

[dodolah]

We are moving abroad. is it a good idea to take my 2 panthers with me?
Does anybody know if there is any restriction on take animals with you on an airplane? or where to look for the info? what kind of paper work do i need to file?
They are young panthers by the way, about 5 months old. we'd like to take them to east asia by the way. typical flight from east coast to east asia + check in time and transfer is about 20+ hours. which shouldn't be too long since people here ship chameleons over night domestically all the time.

any thing will be appreciated

I do not think it is a good idea.
since we are talking different countries here.
Usually, the paperwork can get extremely confusing and expensive as well.
Especially, if they have to endure 20 hours of flight.

by the time, you arrived, then your animal will be quarantine for days under the care of the government.. Here is where the problem lies.
I can see them taking care of dogs... but chameleons? There will be risk that your chameleon won't be taken care well.

there is other way where your animal won't be quarantined. But, it will involve you breaking the law and you can get in serious problem.
So, Overall, I suggest not doing it.
Different country has different requirements as well.

Perhaps, give your animal to your family members to take care of during your absence.

 

[Syn]

there is other way where your animal won't be quarantined. But, it will involve you breaking the law and you can get in serious problem.

I love how you add this part Dodolah.

Is there any way you can contact the people who do the quarantines op17?

 

[SliK JiM]

Does it have to be quarantined in all countries you go to? I don't know quarantine laws properly, but isn't it something like it only needs to go into quarantine if there's a possibly it can interact with other members of its species and cause problems, or it can survive and reproduce in the natural conditions of that country? I have no idea where I got those ideas from, but I'm sure I heard then somewhere! I may, and probably am, completely wrong!

 

[dodolah]

Does it have to be quarantined in all countries you go to? I don't know quarantine laws properly, but isn't it something like it only needs to go into quarantine if there's a possibly it can interact with other members of its species and cause problems, or it can survive and reproduce in the natural conditions of that country? I have no idea where I got those ideas from, but I'm sure I heard then somewhere! I may, and probably am, completely wrong!

Each country is different and I gather different species will have different rule as well. The way it work in Indonesia, the quarantine is basically to check that your pet does not carry diseases that can be introduced to their country.

My brother brought his female Siberian husky from Canada to Indonesia.
His dog ended up in quarantine for 3 months.
When my bro got her back, she was emaciated.

 

[op17]

Is there any way you can contact the people who do the quarantines op17?

I am currently in the process of searching for whom to contact.

there is other way where your animal won't be quarantined. But, it will involve you breaking the law and you can get in serious problem.

lol. I swear that idea did popped up in my head, but I quickly give it up since that would guarantee a big fine for me and the death of my chameleons.

I don't know where I got the idea, or I must had read somewhere, that not everything has to be quarantined. Only certain animals, like cats, dogs cattles... etc, or animals from certain zones have to be quarantined. I may be wrong and every country probably has different rules. I will look more into it.

I am just wondering if anybody has done this before.
If it's too complicated or may endanger my chams, I just may have to give up.
Gotta give it a try, right? it's hard to let your chams go for sure!!!

 

[dodolah]

to what country you gonna move exactly?
i know China and Japan can be very strict about transferring animal from different country.
US is also strict about it.

 

[laurie]

Aren't all panthers under cities? I would think a permit would be required where ever you go. Is this a permenant move? Other wise maybe one of us could board them. Or you might rehome them to one of us.

 

[op17]

going to Taiwan.. making a transfer in Japan
and yea it's probably permanent.

 

[dodolah]

I have to say giving them to a responsible owner seems to be the best way with this. Especially, if it is a permanent move.
I know how difficult it is to do so.

 

[dodolah]

going to Taiwan.. making a transfer in Japan

Ahh!!! In this case, i'll ask around.
i'll post my findings later.

 

[dodolah]

Ok.. OP17, before you go with this, please confirm with the authority first. Especially, with the rule on how to declare live animals and how much it will cost you. Ask if reptile's rule is different with the dog's.
Basically my friend (she's Taiwanese) said if you fly direct from US to Taiwan, then your animal will need to be Q'd for 3 months.

But:
If you take the route as you said.. there is a chance that Q will not be needed.
As far a she know, From US to Japan you can take the animal direct from airport. And From Japan to Taiwan, you can do it also.

But from US to Taiwan, then you cannot.
It's weird, i know... but, I think it has to do a lot with the relationship between the countries.

So, do a research about this... and let us know your findings.

 

[op17]

Ok.. OP17, before you go with this, please confirm with the authority first. Especially, with the rule on how to declare live animals and how much it will cost you.
Basically my friend (she's Taiwanese) said if you fly direct from US to Taiwan, then your animal will need to Q for 3 months.

But:
If you take the route as you said.. there is a chance that Q will not be needed.
As far a she know, From US to Japan you can take the animal direct from airport. And From Japan to Taiwan, you can do it also.

But from US to Taiwan, then you cannot.
It's weird, i know... but, I think it has to do a lot with the relationship between the countries.

So, do a research about this... and let us know your findings.

Thanks a bunch. I will double check.
There is probably alot of phone calls I will have to make.
Cuz I swear to god, all governments must hate their citizens. Their sites never specifically tells you where to look for info. Even if you do find it, their guide lines don't really tell you anything. (gray areas. so they can get you if they wanted to)

 

[op17]

oh by the way can a mod open the restriction on classified forum for me. just in case if i need to sell my chams and cages. besides the panthers, I still need to find homes for 2 veileds and a bearded dragon.

Thanks

 

[Syn]

I wish you the best with your chameleon, and I hope you get to keep it.

Don't harm yourself or your chameleon by doing something stupid, that's about all the advice I can give you.

 

[op17]

thanks for everyone's comment.

I have decided not to bring my chameleons with me.
there has been a slight plan change. we'll be staying in Japan for about a week. although it is possible to bring my chameleons with me, and I don't think quarantine is needed for the countries that I am heading to. I have decided not to go with it. it is going to be too harsh for the animals. can you imagine having need to find a pet store with crickets everyday in Japan?
so soon I will be posting about selling my chams

here is a link that might be useful for people who is also considering to travel abroad with their pets in the future.
go to the bottom list of countries and find your destination.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/regulations/vs/iregs/animals/

also... chances are your pets are going to be in the airplane cargo compartment, unless it's a guide dog or something of that sort.
every airline has its own guide lines... here is what Japan airlines says on their site for example.....

""Pets traveling on Japan Airlines will be accommodated in the cargo compartment of the aircraft. The utmost care will be taken by Japan Airlines staff to ensure that pets travel safely.

The environment in the cargo hold of the aircraft is controlled in the same manner as the passenger cabin. The ventilation system ensures that air is well circulated and the temperature in the cargo hold is maintained.""

http://www.jal.co.jp/en/inter/service/pet/

 

[dodolah]

op, I think you should be able to put an ad in the classified already since you are a "member" instead of "junior member."

So, is this rule correct:
US to Japan to Taiwan will not put your animal in quarantine.
But US to Taiwan direct will.

I knew one of my friend's dog is quarantined for 3 months for doing route #2.

I am glad that you decided not to do it anyway.
Since being put in plane cargo will probably stressed your chameleon badly...

 

[op17]

I think your friend is correct(though people should always call the right authorities first). I skipped the calling part since the plan is canceled.

from US to Japan:
"Animal quarantine inspections are not required upon arrival in Japan for frogs (amphibians), snakes (reptiles) and so forth that you bring with you from abroad."
http://www.maff.go.jp/aqs/english/animal/other.html

from Japan to Taiwan. I didn't find any restrictions besides reptile meat and skins.
http://fbfh.trade.gov.tw/rich/test/indexfh.asp

it also appears several chameleons are under CITES listing: Appendix II...
which probably means more hassles and paper works

carpet http://www.cites.org/gallery/species/reptile/carpet_chameleon.html
panther http://www.cites.org/gallery/species/reptile/panther_chameleon.html
parson http://www.cites.org/gallery/species/reptile/reptiles.html

""Appendix-II specimens

-An export permit or re-export certificate issued by the Management Authority of the State of export or re-export is required.
-An export permit may be issued only if the specimen was legally obtained and if the export will not be detrimental to the survival of the species.
-A re-export certificate may be issued only if the specimen was imported in accordance with the Convention.
-In the case of a live animal or plant, it must be prepared and shipped to minimize any risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.
-No import permit is needed unless required by national law.""

http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.shtml

 

[op17]

op, I think you should be able to put an ad in the classified already since you are a "member" instead of "junior member."

thanks. I noticed.
this hobby is too fun to give up. I shall have chameleons in no time when I get to Taiwan.