Moths?

[Veild Cham Owner]

I was outside with my dog and I picked up a white moth. I was gonna give it to my lol Cham but I decided to wait and here u guys opinion on designing him a wild moth. Would he be ok if I fed it to him?

 

[Crashbandit05]

As far as I know, moths are ok to feed, they aren't that nutritious but my little guy loved hunting a small one and turned very light after snagging it. If you live in the city or where pesticides are sprayed, I'd refrain from feeding wild caught bugs. I'm fortunate to live in very rural mountains where I don't have to worry about pollution, pesticides, etc

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

As far as I know, moths are ok to feed, they aren't that nutritious but my little guy loved hunting a small one and turned very light after snagging it. If you live in the city or where pesticides are sprayed, I'd refrain from feeding wild caught bugs. I'm fortunate to live in very rural mountains where I don't have to worry about pollution, pesticides, etc

Awesome!! Yea my backyard is literally all woods and we never spray pesticides.

 

[Carlton]

A couple of things to consider...if you use moths, use dull colored night flying species, nothing with striking bright color or patterns. Those tend to be warnings that they taste bad. Don't feed insects that seem sick, injured, or disoriented. Make sure you find out what species of moth you have. The larvae of some are major pests that county or state agricultural or forestry agencies may apply broadcast pesticides to control. Know what agriculture goes on near your property. There's a risk that you end up giving your cham a moth that got a dose of toxic chemicals from somewhere outside your property. Just be aware of any pest control programs active in your area and don't give your chams any of the insects those programs target. A keeper I sent two of my chams to many years ago lost both of them to some unknown pesticide...she'd had them several months and they were both completely healthy, then happened to give them a couple of wild collected insects common at that time, and both chams were dead within 48 hours. They both showed major neurological symptoms before death.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

A couple of things to consider...if you use moths, use dull colored night flying species, nothing with striking bright color or patterns. Those tend to be warnings that they taste bad. Don't feed insects that seem sick, injured, or disoriented. Make sure you find out what species of moth you have. The larvae of some are major pests that county or state agricultural or forestry agencies may apply broadcast pesticides to control. Know what agriculture goes on near your property. There's a risk that you end up giving your cham a moth that got a dose of toxic chemicals from somewhere outside your property. Just be aware of any pest control programs active in your area and don't give your chams any of the insects those programs target. A keeper I sent two of my chams to many years ago lost both of them to some unknown pesticide...she'd had them several months and they were both completely healthy, then happened to give them a couple of wild collected insects common at that time, and both chams were dead within 48 hours. They both showed major neurological symptoms before death.

I will not be feeding any bugs outside, too risky

 

[cyberlocc]

I will not be feeding any bugs outside, too risky

What you should do, is catch the bugs, breed the bugs then breed the babies and feed there babies .

 

[bobcochran]

A couple of things to consider...if you use moths, use dull colored night flying species, nothing with striking bright color or patterns. Those tend to be warnings that they taste bad. Don't feed insects that seem sick, injured, or disoriented. Make sure you find out what species of moth you have. The larvae of some are major pests that county or state agricultural or forestry agencies may apply broadcast pesticides to control. Know what agriculture goes on near your property. There's a risk that you end up giving your cham a moth that got a dose of toxic chemicals from somewhere outside your property. Just be aware of any pest control programs active in your area and don't give your chams any of the insects those programs target. A keeper I sent two of my chams to many years ago lost both of them to some unknown pesticide...she'd had them several months and they were both completely healthy, then happened to give them a couple of wild collected insects common at that time, and both chams were dead within 48 hours. They both showed major neurological symptoms before death.

I agree with everything Carlton says. But please listen to what she says. Do your homework!! I feed a lot of wild bugs. I don't feed agricultural pests in my area though. I can also go to areas where there is no agriculture to collect grasshoppers. Be cautious where and what you collect. But, wild caught feeders present an opportunity to give your chameleon the closest thing to their natural prey.
It goes without saying, no matter what you feed your animals annual fecals are required.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

What you should do, is catch the bugs, breed the bugs then breed the babies and feed there babies .

I thought of that, is it hard to breed bugs? I was thinking about breeding my crx but idk I had mixed thoughts about it.

 

[Andee]

Breeding crickets are more time consuming than certain bugs because without the right environment and cleanliness they either don't breed or die rather fast. I breed dubias, clean them about once or twice a year and have screening on the bottom of the cage so I can sift through the feces and debris regularly. I breed my Green Banana Roaches, which at the moment I had to restart my colony and finally have quite a few adults. I am also starting to breed isopods. Which already have new babies from my starter group. I breed silkworms too, I usually by 100 smalls and feed off enough that I still have about 25-40 moths to breed. I then get several hundred eggs I store in the fridge. Very soon I will be breaking open the eggs from the last two months. I could do crickets.... they are just probably my least favorite feeder and would like to do as little with them as possible. I could do hornworms, it's just they are A LOT of work and can't be stored. I have successfully gotten eggs from my last grasshopper colony however the eggs did not make it because I think my species of local grasshopper need a diapause. They adult grasshoppers died because they just got too old. I've done stick insects before... I'm not sure if I will do stick insects next or grasshoppers. I am hoping the wind will die down so I can start collecting grasshoppers.

 

[cyberlocc]

I thought of that, is it hard to breed bugs? I was thinking about breeding my crx but idk I had mixed thoughts about it.

Like Andee said, depends on the bugs. Some are easy some are not.

Isopods and roaches are easy, I currently have a bunch of baby Isopods myself. And just started a Colony of my Local Isopods, we will see how that works out .

I couldn't tell you about crickets I hate crickets and I rarely use crickets.

 

[Andee]

Crickets need specific heat requirements, a good diet, to be cleaned on a weekly basis. They need a baby bin, dirt containers for the mama crickets to lay eggs in. They need a lot of space. Like twice the amount dubias need. Lots of airflow. I think raising crickets would be ... interesting? But I probably won't do it until I start breeding. Kind of have to when I start breeding because all the pin heads that will be needed is ridiculous to buy.

 

[cyberlocc]

Crickets need specific heat requirements, a good diet, to be cleaned on a weekly basis. They need a baby bin, dirt containers for the mama crickets to lay eggs in. They need a lot of space. Like twice the amount dubias need. Lots of airflow. I think raising crickets would be ... interesting? But I probably won't do it until I start breeding. Kind of have to when I start breeding because all the pin heads that will be needed is ridiculous to buy.

Or you could do like me and give pins the big NO! lol.

I have a secret for you , there is other feeders than just pins. There is roaches the size of pins, beetles and other feeders that are more nutritious than pins and easier to deal with IMO .

Rice Flour Beetles are Pin size, FF I would rather do then Crickets plus they are soft bodied, Kenyan roaches, adults are 1/2 inch babies are smaller than Pinheads. They breed slower than some though. There is tons more, throw in a ooth for every clutch and a few pins and you will be good.

Babies should have varied diets as well anyway. And if you dont incubate using the speed hatch method, I have heard babies come out big enough to eat baby Dubias anyway.

The best baby feeder, sadly they infest where I live, (And everywhere?) Is Red Runners (Turkestan Cockroach). They dont climb, they dont fly they are fast moving and move alot, they are red to entice feeding. Best part, as they can be kept in larger numbers. A similar bin size can yield more of them per month than crickets by about 2x. Adult chams will eat them too but they are only a tad over 1/2 inch. There care is same as Dubia and they have less chitin than Dubia or crickets. Babys are the same size as Pins, maybe a tad smaller.

 

[Andee]

I will never keep red runners lol, heard too many horror stories. But Kenyans sound nice, I also have gbr that would work when they are nymphs. What is speed hatching? That sounds horrible.

 

[cyberlocc]

I will never keep red runners lol, heard too many horror stories. But Kenyans sound nice, I also have gbr that would work when they are nymphs. What is speed hatching? That sounds horrible.

So speed hacthing is forcing (changing) hacth times.

If and when I breed, I will do it the normal way. I will set the eggs to incubate at a set temp for panthers like 72, then leave them at that temp for as long as it takes. Doing so takes 9-13 months.

However there is a way you can speed that up, if you dispause the eggs at low temps, then put them at 72 for a month, then raise the temp 1 degree a week until I think its like 85? The eggs can hatch within 5-6 months.

Kind of a Quality vs Quantity thing, I am loosely knowledgeable about it. As I have read a lot of views from both sides, however never done either. the thing is, while the incubation is shorter, from what I have read. The babies are no where near as large, as they season have been tricked to make them hatch faster. In the wild they hatch after a 10-13 months, however by tricking the seasons that changes.

And leaves you with less healthy small chams that are more prone to die off. Though for someone that is trying to make money by breeding in large numbers this is ideal for them. Those same people also lay a female 4-5 times a year vs 1 time, so there ideas are not in the best interest of the cham IMO.

 

[Andee]

God that sounds horrible. I would be so freaked out and devastated if any of my babies died (though I know no matter what it's going to happen at least a few times). If I had major die offs because of something I chose to do... I wouldn't forgive myself. Life is too precious.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

Breeding crickets are more time consuming than certain bugs because without the right environment and cleanliness they either don't breed or die rather fast. I breed dubias, clean them about once or twice a year and have screening on the bottom of the cage so I can sift through the feces and debris regularly. I breed my Green Banana Roaches, which at the moment I had to restart my colony and finally have quite a few adults. I am also starting to breed isopods. Which already have new babies from my starter group. I breed silkworms too, I usually by 100 smalls and feed off enough that I still have about 25-40 moths to breed. I then get several hundred eggs I store in the fridge. Very soon I will be breaking open the eggs from the last two months. I could do crickets.... they are just probably my least favorite feeder and would like to do as little with them as possible. I could do hornworms, it's just they are A LOT of work and can't be stored. I have successfully gotten eggs from my last grasshopper colony however the eggs did not make it because I think my species of local grasshopper need a diapause. They adult grasshoppers died because they just got too old. I've done stick insects before... I'm not sure if I will do stick insects next or grasshoppers. I am hoping the wind will die down so I can start collecting grasshoppers.

Wow u are a busy breeder!! That's awesome good for you!!! I might start a thred on breeding to kinda get an idea on what to do bc I have always thought about it (it would save me some money lol) I am not aloud to have roaches in my house, my mom is deathly afraid lol. I will look into breeding some moths and worms, that would be awesome.