ijmccollum
New Member
Good deal. Keep positive thoughts.
moment of truth ?
- Thread starter xanthoman
- Start date
xanthoman
Avid Member
updated neonate pics
as promised here are some updated neonate pics, but first noticed how my co-habitating females are focused on the neonates, , but they're both intently curious.the one in the foreground is my largest female the one in the background is a smaller red phase female, (neither one is the mother). in the second photo, if you look close enough you can see one of the neonates on the screen in the background. the neonates spent about 45min on the screen today getting a little walk and some natural uvb, it did perk them up but the listless one remains unimproved , i expect him to pass in the next 24hrs. there is a second one not looking all that strong the other three seem to be fairly active considering their minimal food intake, i will adjust my nutritional water tonight and try to get them to drink some more. the last picture is a photo of the mom, she never lost gravid colors from the previous birthing, i was wondering what was going on ? , i should have seen it coming
as promised here are some updated neonate pics, but first noticed how my co-habitating females are focused on the neonates, , but they're both intently curious.the one in the foreground is my largest female the one in the background is a smaller red phase female, (neither one is the mother). in the second photo, if you look close enough you can see one of the neonates on the screen in the background. the neonates spent about 45min on the screen today getting a little walk and some natural uvb, it did perk them up but the listless one remains unimproved , i expect him to pass in the next 24hrs. there is a second one not looking all that strong the other three seem to be fairly active considering their minimal food intake, i will adjust my nutritional water tonight and try to get them to drink some more. the last picture is a photo of the mom, she never lost gravid colors from the previous birthing, i was wondering what was going on ? , i should have seen it coming
ijmccollum
New Member
Great pics, thanks for sharing! Your red phase is pretty sweet and mom has real interesting patterns -- kind of shows up in the babes. The wee-bits are way cute. Don't give up hope, even the weakest may surprise you.
Your red phase is pretty sweet and mom has real interesting patterns -- kind of shows up in the babes. The wee-bits are way cute. Don't give up hope, even the weakest may surprise you.
xanthoman
Avid Member
thanks, i let all of my chams regularly crawl on the sw facing window screen during the winter , i should really get more pics of that.Love the third pic. "Giant chameleons overtake city!@"
xanthoman
Avid Member
worlds smallest free range ?
my apolgies for not posting sooner, i had some wi-fi driver problems and was unable to access the internet. anybody has followed this thread knows that i last posted pictures on tue, after i was done taking pictures on tues, i was virtually positive i had everybody back in the cage (or so i thought), but when i got up on wed. there were only 4 in the cage, and i dont think it is physically possible for them to get out, or maybe it was, in any case there were only four including the listless one, the fifth one was no where to be found, thats right, (for those of you who dont already know) xanthoman is an idiot. anyway after scouring the cage area as well as the entire apt (and constantly looking on the floor for little squished chameleon shapes) i had virtually given up finding him, i figured either he had been squished or eaten, but low and behold when i got up thursday morn there he was, found by my gf crawling on the headphones i had used the night before to watch tv in the dark (so i wouldnt wake the gf), for all i know he was on them while was using them. so for at least 24 hrs, possibly longer, he was essentially free ranging on his own, which could possibly make him the worlds smallest free range cham !? (even if only temporarlily) . of course i viewed the whole thing as somewhat of a miracle , and speaking of miracles, it is now day 9 and all are still alive, including the listless one. i did manage to get all of them to drink at least some ultra dilute bug/ vitamin water and i still dont hold out good long term hope for the listless one(or any of them for that matter), but the rest seem to be active, but not eating and as interested in food as they should be, and all are looking quite thin, but i will keep trying and i will do my best to keep everyone posted
my apolgies for not posting sooner, i had some wi-fi driver problems and was unable to access the internet. anybody has followed this thread knows that i last posted pictures on tue, after i was done taking pictures on tues, i was virtually positive i had everybody back in the cage (or so i thought), but when i got up on wed. there were only 4 in the cage, and i dont think it is physically possible for them to get out, or maybe it was, in any case there were only four including the listless one, the fifth one was no where to be found, thats right, (for those of you who dont already know) xanthoman is an idiot. anyway after scouring the cage area as well as the entire apt (and constantly looking on the floor for little squished chameleon shapes) i had virtually given up finding him, i figured either he had been squished or eaten, but low and behold when i got up thursday morn there he was, found by my gf crawling on the headphones i had used the night before to watch tv in the dark (so i wouldnt wake the gf), for all i know he was on them while was using them. so for at least 24 hrs, possibly longer, he was essentially free ranging on his own, which could possibly make him the worlds smallest free range cham !? (even if only temporarlily) . of course i viewed the whole thing as somewhat of a miracle , and speaking of miracles, it is now day 9 and all are still alive, including the listless one. i did manage to get all of them to drink at least some ultra dilute bug/ vitamin water and i still dont hold out good long term hope for the listless one(or any of them for that matter), but the rest seem to be active, but not eating and as interested in food as they should be, and all are looking quite thin, but i will keep trying and i will do my best to keep everyone posted
ijmccollum
New Member
Yaay! That is funny as heck -- at least now that you found him! And yes, I that is the youngest CB free ranger I have heard of.
Day 9 and still going, you must be doing something right, even listy has hung in there.
Can you tell if they have little knobbies on not yet?
Day 9 and still going, you must be doing something right, even listy has hung in there.
Can you tell if they have little knobbies on not yet?
xanthoman
Avid Member
little knobies ?
by little knobies, i assume you are reffering to the little horn stubs ?, heres the thing , even at the newly born neonate stage there is almost always three tiny little facial stubs (regardless whether they are male or female) and i am sure there is an actual name for them but i have no idea what their proper terminology would be, in any event, because they are almost always present to some degree no matter how young they be, they are not a reliable indicater of sex (at that early an age). sometimes horns will clearly start to emerge by 4 or 5 weeks, but 3 months is more common. however the runt of the litter from my clutch born 06-29-09 is just now starting to have horns emerge, so unless they are clearly emerging, they cannot be used to determine sex 100%. further, in rare instances, the females, can develop both rostoral and cranial horns, although i have never personally seen this, i have read several posts in the last couple of years where this is appearantly the case (if you can believe what you read). one thing i have noticed, is that the females have more of an evenly slanted face and the males tend to have a more vertical forehead/ occular area before the sloping of the face. also i have one fully adult female with a significant ocular horn and two adult females with no actual horns at all (including the mom). the first photo is the runt of the litter born 06-29-09 , presumably this is a male, but i have never seen horns take this long to emerge. the second photo i can say with a fair degree of certainty is a female, but if you look closely you can still barely see three tiny little nubs. both were born 06-29-09 most other males were clearly displaying horns by 12-14 weeks. also i have one fully adult female with a clearly significant rostoral horn and two adult females with no noticable horns at all. jmo
by little knobies, i assume you are reffering to the little horn stubs ?, heres the thing , even at the newly born neonate stage there is almost always three tiny little facial stubs (regardless whether they are male or female) and i am sure there is an actual name for them but i have no idea what their proper terminology would be, in any event, because they are almost always present to some degree no matter how young they be, they are not a reliable indicater of sex (at that early an age). sometimes horns will clearly start to emerge by 4 or 5 weeks, but 3 months is more common. however the runt of the litter from my clutch born 06-29-09 is just now starting to have horns emerge, so unless they are clearly emerging, they cannot be used to determine sex 100%. further, in rare instances, the females, can develop both rostoral and cranial horns, although i have never personally seen this, i have read several posts in the last couple of years where this is appearantly the case (if you can believe what you read). one thing i have noticed, is that the females have more of an evenly slanted face and the males tend to have a more vertical forehead/ occular area before the sloping of the face. also i have one fully adult female with a significant ocular horn and two adult females with no actual horns at all (including the mom). the first photo is the runt of the litter born 06-29-09 , presumably this is a male, but i have never seen horns take this long to emerge. the second photo i can say with a fair degree of certainty is a female, but if you look closely you can still barely see three tiny little nubs. both were born 06-29-09 most other males were clearly displaying horns by 12-14 weeks. also i have one fully adult female with a clearly significant rostoral horn and two adult females with no noticable horns at all. jmo
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sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
thank u for continuing to update us. Im on pins and needles hoping they are going to make it.
ijmccollum
New Member
Yeah, regardless of sex, you still gotta the love the nubbies. Hope you are all still doing well up NW.
xanthoman
Avid Member
the listless one, rip
(for those of you who have been following, (after 11 days), the listless one has died, i feel bad for trying to keep him alive, by doing so, all i really did, was to prolong his suffering. i have the same reservations about the other 4 . of the 4 remaining, only 2 look like they have a snowballs chance of making it. just goes to show, breeding chams isnt always grins and giggles
(for those of you who have been following, (after 11 days), the listless one has died, i feel bad for trying to keep him alive, by doing so, all i really did, was to prolong his suffering. i have the same reservations about the other 4 . of the 4 remaining, only 2 look like they have a snowballs chance of making it. just goes to show, breeding chams isnt always grins and giggles
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I wouldn't feel terrible about working with the listless one...after all, he didn't know life was supposed to be any different.
I know it is hard to see them fail, but even if they had made it you probably don't want to pass on "weak" baby tendencies to future cbb generations. We should want to produce the most vibrant robust babies we can.
If anyone could keep them going you could!
I know it is hard to see them fail, but even if they had made it you probably don't want to pass on "weak" baby tendencies to future cbb generations. We should want to produce the most vibrant robust babies we can.
If anyone could keep them going you could!
xanthoman
Avid Member
thanks for the uplift. i would never intentionally breed anything less than prime stock, but then this clutch wasnt intentional either. the male is under house arrest until i have had a chance to condition everyone, give them all a clean bill of heath, and get my act back together. probably signals the end of any free ranging (or breeding attempts) for the foreseable future.
ijmccollum
New Member
Heart felt thoughts going out to you. You can only do what you can do and I am sure you did all you could. You are right, it is not all grins and giggles, sometimes we are left with heavy hearts.
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Been lurking on this thread. Sounds like you have been busting your but to save these little ones. Good luck with the remaining 4.
zeechiller
New Member
you are giving them a shot at life, no matter how short it is. Hopefully the remaining four will make it. In the wild they would not have made it this long.
xanthoman
Avid Member
thanks for the compliment but, i think the likely hood is, that in the wild they would have been born in far better shape to begin with. i should have done a better job of recognizing the situation when the mother failed to lose her gravid colors from the 09 clutch. i think most of the time mother nature does a far better job than man
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Hey i lost a female jackson cham that was gravid. I put her outside to get some morning sun. In one of my outside cages. She overheated in less than 2hrs. My male was always fine in a cage right next to her. We all make mistakes. Just don't repeat them. And it sounds like you won't.
My male was always fine in a cage right next to her. We all make mistakes. Just don't repeat them. And it sounds like you won't.
ijmccollum
New Member
Of course mother nature would have done a better job -- we are mere mortals, but we do what we can. She/they might have perished long before this time. Is it right/wrong that we interfere or meddle? I am no judge -- I am merely mortal and I am fallible. I will not turn my back on those who are struggling even if they are not my species -- and I feel you are the same, and I admire that very human trait.
