Minimal-stress hydration?
- Thread starter Trillian
- Start date
Trace
Captain Awesome
I think that’s a female Graceful Chameleon (Chamaeleo gracilis) and not a Senegal. Not that it makes a difference really as care is relatively the same.
I’m glad you are watering her but I think at this point that vet check might be prudent. You mentioned she opened her mouth a few times in the shower and her front feet look swollen –particularly her left one - so she may be battling some sort of infection. Antibiotics might be the next step. I’m not a doctor though so don’t take my word as gospel.
Good luck!
I’m glad you are watering her but I think at this point that vet check might be prudent. You mentioned she opened her mouth a few times in the shower and her front feet look swollen –particularly her left one - so she may be battling some sort of infection. Antibiotics might be the next step. I’m not a doctor though so don’t take my word as gospel.
Good luck!
Trillian
New Member
Well she fell asleep at about 11am, which I wasn't impressed with. I found a local vet and they told me to go straight in, I guess they had a quiet day, it didn't seem to be an issue.
The vet was incredible. He took a full history and spent about an hour discussing her origin, care, setup and behaviour before even uncovering the box to examine her. From all the worries I shared, he was surprised that she was so big and so healthy-looking!
Upshot is that she has a hookworm infestation, which is pretty much negating most of the care I'm giving her, though he says that she would be long dead if I hadn't been following the advice I've been given here.
He says she is slightly dehydrated and her tail is skinny, but she is strong and alert, more so than he was expecting. She's had treatment for the hookworm, and I'm to take her back in 2 weeks for a follow up, and he said to call any time if I have any concerns or questions. He also weighed her (66 grams) and said that she isn't gravid, and is probably too underweight to start producing eggs yet.
Such a relief! $175 very well spent! He also said to get rid of the substrate, as that will be helping the hookworms, and just to get more live foliage.
So anyone needs an awesome herp vet in NY, go see Dr Raiti at the Beverlie Animal Hospital in Mount Vernon! He also breeds snakes and takes in lots of wildlife rescues including one 'box turtle' which a woman found being used as a football by some children, and turned out to be a Russian tortoise, which he repaired and treated and adopted.
And someone gave him a baby ball python which they didn't want any more, and he's offered it to me! Woah... my menagerie grows... It's still recuperating and only taking live food at the moment, which I really can't manage, so he's going to get it healthier and onto thawed pinkies and give me a call.
The vet was incredible. He took a full history and spent about an hour discussing her origin, care, setup and behaviour before even uncovering the box to examine her. From all the worries I shared, he was surprised that she was so big and so healthy-looking!
Upshot is that she has a hookworm infestation, which is pretty much negating most of the care I'm giving her, though he says that she would be long dead if I hadn't been following the advice I've been given here.
He says she is slightly dehydrated and her tail is skinny, but she is strong and alert, more so than he was expecting. She's had treatment for the hookworm, and I'm to take her back in 2 weeks for a follow up, and he said to call any time if I have any concerns or questions. He also weighed her (66 grams) and said that she isn't gravid, and is probably too underweight to start producing eggs yet.
Such a relief! $175 very well spent! He also said to get rid of the substrate, as that will be helping the hookworms, and just to get more live foliage.
So anyone needs an awesome herp vet in NY, go see Dr Raiti at the Beverlie Animal Hospital in Mount Vernon! He also breeds snakes and takes in lots of wildlife rescues including one 'box turtle' which a woman found being used as a football by some children, and turned out to be a Russian tortoise, which he repaired and treated and adopted.
And someone gave him a baby ball python which they didn't want any more, and he's offered it to me! Woah... my menagerie grows... It's still recuperating and only taking live food at the moment, which I really can't manage, so he's going to get it healthier and onto thawed pinkies and give me a call.
Trace
Captain Awesome
Yay! I’m glad you took her to the doctor! Sounds like you got a good one too.
I’m not sure what meds he gave for the hookworm (It was probably Panacur) but most medications can cause inappetence so don’t get too concerned if she doesn’t eat as much the next day or so. Panacur can also be hard on her kidneys so definitely keep up with the watering. It will also help to flush out the dead and dying hookworms. She may get another dose of medications in two weeks just to make sure she is clean on the inside.
Good luck!
I’m not sure what meds he gave for the hookworm (It was probably Panacur) but most medications can cause inappetence so don’t get too concerned if she doesn’t eat as much the next day or so. Panacur can also be hard on her kidneys so definitely keep up with the watering. It will also help to flush out the dead and dying hookworms. She may get another dose of medications in two weeks just to make sure she is clean on the inside.
Good luck!
Trillian
New Member
Thank you for the warning! I would have freaked out otherwise! It was Panacur, straight into her stomach, poor thing. I put her back in her viv as soon as we got home and just left her alone. She wasn't spotty while being examined, and didn't hiss or gape, just puffed out a little bit, the vet said she was a sweetheart. I'd always assumed the spots she gets when I shower her are signs of fear, but she must have been terrified at the vet, although he was gentle. Maybe they really are just her grumpy spots! Or she adores the vet, she did show him some lovely yellow and lime green colouring.
Trillian
New Member
I've had a sort out of the viv, cleared out all the old substrate, wiped down the inside, disinfected it with wipes, then wiped it down again. All the fake foliage and vines were put in a sink full of very hot water for an hour, including the back panel, the plants were all washed. I put her back in, but she's hiding at the bottom like a kicked puppy, so I'm going to leave her to it for the rest of the day. During and after pics:
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Trillian
New Member
I was really hoping not to have to spend any more money, but I really don't know what to do other than get her a mesh enclosure. She's still pacing at the bottom and pawing at the glass, even with the substrate gone and a laying bin added (vet said she wasn't gravid, there weren't even any developing follicles, but I'm extra cautious). The stupid pointless disc thermometer reads 80-82F at the top of the enclosure, though the basking area is likely to be warmer than that, the bottom is certainly going to be cooler, and there are lots of branches to perch on without being in range of the basking light.
Does anyone else with glass enclosures have this problem?
Does anyone else with glass enclosures have this problem?
Trace
Captain Awesome
At least she is active! Active is good. And the spots do mean she is crabby BTW.
Do you have her enclosure in that bay window normally? Glass enclosures can heat up really fast to almost lethal levels in direct sunlight so maybe that's why she hangs out on the bottom? Also the size of the enclosure combined with the wattage of your basking light may not give her the proper temperature gradient that she likes or needs. As you have discovered those round thermometers are useless but you can buy cheap yet decent indoor/outdoor digital ones with a probe at most hardware stores.
I personally have not used glass enclosures so I can’t really comment on that but many people do with great success.
Do you have her enclosure in that bay window normally? Glass enclosures can heat up really fast to almost lethal levels in direct sunlight so maybe that's why she hangs out on the bottom? Also the size of the enclosure combined with the wattage of your basking light may not give her the proper temperature gradient that she likes or needs. As you have discovered those round thermometers are useless but you can buy cheap yet decent indoor/outdoor digital ones with a probe at most hardware stores.
I personally have not used glass enclosures so I can’t really comment on that but many people do with great success.
Trillian
New Member
I'm still waiting for the digital thermometer/hygrometer I ordered from eBay, hopefully tomorrow. The viv is always in that bay window, but it is a very sheltered back yard, fully in shadow up until about 5pm at this time of year, and then there is just a small corner at the bottom which gets sunlight. It does heat up quickly though, so I check the temp (on the crappy therm) regularly and turn off the basking light when it creeps up. Only the Reptisun 5.0 is on the timer, the basking light I turn on and off as needed. I'm going to persevere for a little longer with the glass viv, if only because an empty viv just makes me itch for new reptiles! But I suspect I'll be moving to mesh, and hopefully DIY cages will still have some in stock once my tax rebate comes through.
Right, well, I found fresh, photogenic poop for you lucky people. As you can see, she doesn't chew her waxworms particularly well. She still only has 1-2 a day, in addition to the 3 crickets. The vet said that's a good amount of food, though he said not to rely on the waxworms, as they should only be treat items, he understood that I was feeding her these just while she was recovering, so I knew she was getting some calories.
Poop observations?!
Right, well, I found fresh, photogenic poop for you lucky people. As you can see, she doesn't chew her waxworms particularly well. She still only has 1-2 a day, in addition to the 3 crickets. The vet said that's a good amount of food, though he said not to rely on the waxworms, as they should only be treat items, he understood that I was feeding her these just while she was recovering, so I knew she was getting some calories.
Poop observations?!
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Trillian
New Member
Does her poop look okay on the previous page? I have no idea what chameleon poop is supposed to look like, I thought it would be more like gecko poop. I know I'm probably stressing too much about things, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'm surprised she's survived this long actually, hopefully I'll start to feel more confident once I start to get a bit more positive feedback from her.
Trace
Captain Awesome
Sorry I was at a Nerd Convention all weekend and was hoping that someone would have chimed in for you by now. Usually undigested insects are an indication of internal parasites. Considering she has just been dewormed with the Panacur this might the last iffy poop you will see. The next one might be a little off colour because of the meds but don’t be alarmed by that. Otherwise the urate is getting better and it looks like she is hydrated. Keep that up!
I don’t want to keep harping on the ‘taking it to a vet thang’ but one of the first things they drilled into my head in vet tech classes was NEVER diagnose anything! Always defer to a real doctor. That said, you now have an established relationship with a reptile veterinarian so don’t hesitate to call him if you have questions about the diagnosis, the medications and prognosis until her next checkup.
Of course I don’t want to sound like Captain Obvious and not to say you do this either but if she is outside make sure she is in an escape proof and predator proof cage or you have to watch her like a hawk. Summer is coming and if you stick around the forum you will see countless “I put my chameleon outside in a tree and now I can’t find her and I only had my back turned for a minute’ kinds of threads. Don’t be part of that statistic. You’ve really turned her around, I’m rooting for her.
Cheers,
Trace
I don’t want to keep harping on the ‘taking it to a vet thang’ but one of the first things they drilled into my head in vet tech classes was NEVER diagnose anything! Always defer to a real doctor. That said, you now have an established relationship with a reptile veterinarian so don’t hesitate to call him if you have questions about the diagnosis, the medications and prognosis until her next checkup.
Of course I don’t want to sound like Captain Obvious and not to say you do this either but if she is outside make sure she is in an escape proof and predator proof cage or you have to watch her like a hawk. Summer is coming and if you stick around the forum you will see countless “I put my chameleon outside in a tree and now I can’t find her and I only had my back turned for a minute’ kinds of threads. Don’t be part of that statistic. You’ve really turned her around, I’m rooting for her.
Cheers,
Trace
Trillian
New Member
Trace, again you are wonderful! Gotta love those nerd conventions, what was the theme?
Thank you for the info about the undigested bugs. The crickets are almost unrecognisable in her poop (though a head was visible and completely creepy) so I'm wondering if it's something about waxworms that they are less likely to be digested fully. I've made an appointment for her second deworming next week, so hopefully that will clear out any lingering worms, especially since I made the substrate changes the vet recommended. He has also said the same thing about contacting him if I'm worried or have questions or anything else. He is so wonderful!
Good tip about the outdoor time, I barely glanced away from her in the time she was outside, and was very surprised at how fast she could move on the ground!
I'm glad you think she's looking better, I think it's one of those worried parent things, where things you would be happy to reassure someone else about, you worry about to a ridiculous degree!
Thank you for the info about the undigested bugs. The crickets are almost unrecognisable in her poop (though a head was visible and completely creepy) so I'm wondering if it's something about waxworms that they are less likely to be digested fully. I've made an appointment for her second deworming next week, so hopefully that will clear out any lingering worms, especially since I made the substrate changes the vet recommended. He has also said the same thing about contacting him if I'm worried or have questions or anything else. He is so wonderful!
Good tip about the outdoor time, I barely glanced away from her in the time she was outside, and was very surprised at how fast she could move on the ground!
I'm glad you think she's looking better, I think it's one of those worried parent things, where things you would be happy to reassure someone else about, you worry about to a ridiculous degree!
Trace
Captain Awesome
It was Ottawa ComicCon so it was more of a generalized nerd get-together than a specific gaming or fantasy type show. I did pick up a most cool Lightsaber Umbrella! Jedi blue colour of course. Normally I don’t like gloomy weather but I’m hoping for some rain. And soon!
That worrying never goes away; trust me on that. It’s all part of a chameleons selfish charm.
Trillian
New Member
She roosted as usual last night, woke with the light this morning and did a bit of pootling about. I took the car to the garage, was back a couple of hours later, and she was on the floor of the vivarium, eyes closed, her nose pressed into the paper towel. Was scared, so brought her out, which she wasn't impressed with, looked her over, showered her and she drank quite a lot, and am now making sure her laying bin is appropriate, just in case the vet was wrong about her not being gravid or anywhere near.
Tough day already today, seems the car we bought 5 months ago is a lemon, trying to persuade the garage to take it back, but need to wait until a time my husband can be there too, which is only weekends, plus I have my eldest daughter's birthday on Saturday, so I need to bake a batch of cupcakes for her class tomorrow, and bake her a cake that looks like a varactyl (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Boga), and clear the house ready for her party.
So, the cake mixture is likely to have a high ratio of damp topsoil and playsand and I'll probably end up digging a test hole in it with a spoon, and then carefully icing the lay bin.
Tough day already today, seems the car we bought 5 months ago is a lemon, trying to persuade the garage to take it back, but need to wait until a time my husband can be there too, which is only weekends, plus I have my eldest daughter's birthday on Saturday, so I need to bake a batch of cupcakes for her class tomorrow, and bake her a cake that looks like a varactyl (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Boga), and clear the house ready for her party.
So, the cake mixture is likely to have a high ratio of damp topsoil and playsand and I'll probably end up digging a test hole in it with a spoon, and then carefully icing the lay bin.
Trillian
New Member
This morning she was sleeping on her basking branch, so I showered her and she drank a little water, though her eyes look more sunken than usual. She hasn't taken any food from me since first thing yesterday morning, and the few crickets and a housefly I gave her today remain unmolested. She's crawled into the darkest part of her viv and gone to sleep. I'm leaving her to it for now, can't take her to the vet until Monday and not sure what else to try. My gut says she's a WC cham and hates it, and seems to have given up. I really hope not, hoping she's just tired and grumpy.
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