Minimal-stress hydration?

[Trillian]

I rescued a female Senegal (about 6 inches from nose to vent) from Craigslist on Friday, she is fairly alert and active, but I posted a pic of her yesterday and the general consensus seems to be that she's quite dehydrated. She's anxious and stressed at the moment, and very wary of activity near her vivarium. I'd really appreciate some ideas for hydrating her that aren't too invasive, or an idea of the urgency of hydration versus acclimation and stress management.

At the moment I'm misting her viv a few times a day and I have a dripper set up that she's been investigating, but I have yet to see her drink. I've also been using a small syringe to drip water onto the tip of her nose, but the look in her eye suggests she's pretty convinced it's a creative way to torture her for vital information about the rebel alliance.

She had two mealworms from my hand on Friday, but hasn't eaten since.

 

[carol5208]

it seems you are doing what you need to. I was going to suggest the syringe or an eye dropper. If she starts eating you can squirt some water in her mouth but not down her throat. She could aspirate. What I do is follow my one chameleon around with the dripper. I get over the top of the cage and just follow him with it and keep dripping it on his nose. This could work for you and this way you dont have to hold her and stress her further.Also, do you have any hornworms. They are said to be great for hydration purposes.

 

[Trillian]

The only feeders I currently have are mealworms, just finished my last batch of crickets for the Rankins dragon and the geckos, the cham was a bit of an impulse buy (I KNOW, I know, but I was in need of retail therapy) so aside from the viv I already had, I didn't have any other supplies.

At what point do I freak out and take more serious measures? I had a couple of chams from a reptile expo last year and they died within a month, despite careful syringe nutrition and hydration. Don't want to make the same mistakes again and end up swooping in too soon or too late.

Can you recommend somewhere cheap and speedy for ordering feeder bugs? I don't want huge amounts, in case she doesn't like them. Looks like most of the feeders suitable for Senegals would be okay to give to my Rankins dragon or geckos too.

Here's a pic of her:


That's the colouration she displays most of the time, although I've noticed the spots appear or get darker when the viv doors are opened.

 

[chamlover98]

You can get wonderful prices shipped for crickets at lazyhbait.com I pay about 22 shipped for a healthy box of 1000 alive to my door step.

 

[KellysChameleons]

make sure the water you're misting with is warm, i've noticed that even my chams that used to despise getting misted actually seem to enjoy it when i started using warm water

 

[carol5208]

do you know why you other chameleons died within a month?? Do you have the proper uva and uvb lighting? Do you know about gutloading your feeders and supplements you need to use? Sometimes impulse buys will backfire on you if you do not get the proper set up Did you have the proper temps, humdity and lighting for your other chameleons. All very critical....Research first is always best. you can also order crickets from ghanns on line. Silkworms from coastal silworms and hornworms too, you can buy horns from greatlakes hornworms, and silks and horns from mulberry farms. You need to feed something else other than meal worms. Most of the local pet stores sell crickets so I would get some of those until you can get an order done on line.

 

[Trillian]

Thanks for that info ChamLover, I think we did get 1000 crickets shipped before, but it was so tricky getting out a few at a time, I think lots of them escaped and we couldn't seem to get through them quickly enough! I'd like to give her variety too, if she's going to be a little grumpy to start with.

That is an excellent suggestion Kelly, that actually hadn't occurred to me! Thank you!

What do you think of her colours at the moment? It looks like Senegals (if that's what she actually is) get dark when stressed or unhappy, so I'm hoping she's just settling in and not too fed up?

 

[Solid Snake]

do you know why you other chameleons died within a month?? Do you have the proper uva and uvb lighting? Do you know about gutloading your feeders and supplements you need to use? Sometimes impulse buys will backfire on you if you do not get the proper set up Did you have the proper temps, humdity and lighting for your other chameleons. All very critical....Research first is always best. you can also order crickets from ghanns on line. Silkworms from coastal silworms and hornworms too, you can buy horns from greatlakes hornworms, and silks and horns from mulberry farms. You need to feed something else other than meal worms. Most of the local pet stores sell crickets so I would get some of those until you can get an order done on line.

/\/\This

A good shower wouldnt hurt IMO.

You can use the backsplash from a shower, like stated in your other thread.

The worry is that if it gets stressed, it wont drink/eat/thermoregulate properly, it will just "hide" which will cause health problems. So if the animal is dehydrated, a shower is a good thing generally. Mine get at least 3 long rainstorms a day.

A dripper should be used with misting.

 

[Trillian]

do you know why you other chameleons died within a month??

Sorry, I should have clarified, they were tiny twiggy things, the seller thought they were Cameroon sailfins, but they were so skinny. It's clear now they were wild-caught, and despite following all the online care guidelines, they just never had a chance, and I managed to prolong their last few weeks by torturing them and syringe feeding them when they should have just been let go.

 

[carol5208]

that is sad. The wc are very hard to acclimate and most of them have parasites. What type of lighting are you using for this chameleon? Both uva and uvb? What are you feeding your crickets? What type of supplements are you dusting your feeders with?.

 

[Trillian]

The lights I have currently were recommended by the pet store, again, probably not the best source of advice, but I've yet to find a tall chubby guy with a beard and a passion for reptiles who didn't give me good advice in life.
I have this one: http://www.petco.com/product/108454/Zilla-Tropical-25-UVB-Fluorescent-13-Watt-Coil-Bulb.aspx
And this: http://www.petco.com/product/111467/Zilla-Day-Blue-Light-Incandescent-Bulb.aspx
On a 12 hour timer in a hood set just above the mesh at the top of the vivarium. They also sold me a red night bulb, but from reading up on it, she shouldn't need it if the house temp doesn't regularly drop below 65, is that right?

I am a beginner with chameleons, and I know they have very different requirements to my other reptiles. I am open to advice though and happy to spend all day tomorrow driving around New York picking up whatever bits she needs to make her happier!

 

[Trillian]

The crickets usually get kitchen scraps, so a decent variety of greens, potato peelings and carrot tops, plus bell peppers and mango if I'm making up a salad for the dragon. As they get a fair bit of wet food I don't tend to give them extra water, it doesn't help their deathwish. I bought some crested gecko pellets a while ago (did I mention my impulse buying?!) which obviously the geckos aren't bothered about, but the crickets seem to really like them. I have a calcium supplement which I dust the crickets with., Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3.

 

[PappaRONzi]

Go to a big box store and get some crickets! Gut load them and get them to your Cham ASAP. Bait shops also usually have crickets. Get something into the belly, even a few wax worms wouldn't hurt to jump start the little guy.

 

[skittles1234]

i have a senegal too and i was looking at the picture of her and she seems fairly healthly. except for some of the little black dots from where crickets have been chewing on her she is fine. looks hydrated. if she isen't dark brown or black and walking along the bottom of the cage she is fine. they usually hang out and just chill and wait for food to come by. My girl walked around through, turning brown and black, for 5 days after i got her. its normal. make sure she can't see your other pets though. i usually use a dish towl over my other reps cages to prevent her from seeing them.

 

[Trace]

Unfortunately that Senegal Chameleon is wild caught just like those cristatus you rescued. They go through such terrible conditions from initial capture in Africa to the pet stores and dealers here in North America that most are close to death. You experienced this with those cristatus. At this point your Senegal needs to be rehydrated and fast. Put her in the shower like Solid Snake mentioned and do this for 20 minutes a days for several days. All this water rehydrate her, flush her system and will clean her skin and eyes. As much as she is cool, do not handle her except for feeding and watering. A lot of wild caught chameleons do not recognize our captive bred insects (silkworm and hornworms for example) as prey items so I suggest finding some flies if she is not eating. No chameleon can resist a fly; even picky eaters. Most wild caught chameleons have internal parasites, coupled with the stress of export and sale these parasites can bloom to alarming, unhealthy levels. This one needs veterinary attention ASAP is she to survive.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Trace

 

[Trace]

Here is a good blog on how to create a shower chamber if you are unfamiliar:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ataraxia/594-shower-chamber-treatment.html

I disagree slightly with the use of warm water as sometimes temperatures can vary and you might end up burning your chameleon if left unattended. I opt for lukewarm water (not cool or cold) and letting the chameleon warm up afterwards under their lights if they need.

 

[Trillian]

Well I'm glad tomorrow is payday! I need to take the tortoises to a vet for a checkup too, one of them has developed a slightly overgrown beak.

She isn't in view of any of the other reptiles, but she is in the kitchen, which is fairly quiet, only used for preparing meals and occasional fridge raids. She's high up in the bay window, though I know she won't be getting any benefit from the filtered sunlight through the window.

Where is a good place to buy a proper thermometer? I have a typical plastic disc one at the moment, and a hygrometer, but I'd be happier with a more accurate one to check the basking spot. Are the lights okay?

Anyone have any experience with settling in WCs and how long it might take before they feel happier? And is it normal for her to be trying to escape all the time rather than hiding? She's up and down all over the place exploring, and is confused by the glass sides, climbing down to the substrate to try to walk out, so I've put things against the sides so she stops using up energy like this too much.

I was relieved to read about them sometimes being 'shy' to drink when someone is around, a few times I've noticed her sat near the dripper, but eyeing me suspiciously, so I'm hoping she is drinking secretly.

She's had a day of not being prodded by a concerned me, just chilled out, spritzed and generally left to calm down, so I'll start her new bathroom routine tomorrow.

 

[carol5208]

get a plain calcium to dust your feeders with and use that at most or every feeding. The calcium with d3 should be used sparingly like twice a month. The red light is not needed. The temps can get lower than 65, more like mid 50's. No lights at night period. If you need heat get yourself a small ceramic heater and use that instead of the bulb..The lights you are using are ok. That is not what most of us use but it should be alright. I would change out the blue bulb for an ordinary housebulb about a 60 watt or a little less. The white simulates the sun more than the blue.

 

[kinyonga]

Senegals need to be kept well hydrated....so it would be good to make sure she drinks every day. This being said...do not spray water directly into her mouth...let her get the water from a gentle misting or from licking it up off the leaves, etc. or from a dripper. You want to make sure that she doesn't aspirate it.

If you have her close to the window, it could be that she is getting a draft/cold air from the window at night and that can lead to fungal infections and RI's.

She has a raised bump on her left shoulder in the photo...is there a matching bump on the other side? Can you post a closer photo of it please?

 

[Trillian]

I returned the compact fluorescent light and got the long Repti Sun 5.0, as it looked like that was one that lots of people here use. They didn't have any hoods that fitted the tubes, only for the usual bulbs, but I found an aquarium hood that fitted the tube, so went with that. I've still got the blue glass 100w bulb in there as it says it provides UVA, but I'm keeping an eye on the temperatures in there in case I need to swap it out for a 60w.

Kinyonga:
She is by a window, but it is rarely open and the temperatures in the viv seem okay so far. The bump on her shoulder, from looking at the pic again, and her, is her shoulder under her skin, because she's quite skinny. It's only visible when she's in certain positions, and she looks symmetrical on both sides.

I think I'd overdone the dense planting by putting a big hibiscus in there, so I've taken it out and rearranged the vines a bit more sensibly. How do you get those danged things to attach anyway?! The suction cups for the plastic foliage seem unreliable, but she seems pretty good at judging what is able to take her weight. Here's an updated pic of her setup, any advice much appreciated, as always.

I'm struggling to get feeders from one vendor, they either don't stock silks and hornworms, are out of stock at the moment, or only ship in vast quantities. I put 3 small crickets in her viv and they disappeared quickly, I also put two waxworms on my palm and after insisting she didn't want to talk to me any more today, she noticed what I was holding and plodded straight over to take them from me. I also took her outside for some natural sunlight, which she really seemed to enjoy, she went darker on the side in the sun anyway. And it was only for about 10 minutes.