Metal Halide Concerns

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Just got done removing the plants, heaters,and swamp coolers etc.. from the old location of my greenhouse to the new location. My dad and I put all the plants in the garage and decided to fire up the metal halide for the plants. For the first time running its awesome except with a couple of pluses and one major concern. The Sun System metal halide was reported to run at very hot temperatures and compare to what I was expecting is running very cool. Secondly I was wondering what light emission range would be of the light and at about 7 to 7 and 1/2 high the light is covering a good range. Lastly is my concern, I went to test how much UV B the light was emitting and with my Solar meter and only got a reading of 1. I 'm going to experiment more with this light though, there is a glass panel in front of the metal halide bulb that may be blocking the UV B rays or maybe I have got the wrong kind of bulb.

I'm going to post some pictures in about a month when the greenhouse is back together.

 

[summoner12]

Might have the wrong bulb... or the glass covering filters out all of the light.... I would take a reading with the UVB meter with no glass..... see what you get. If you get high levels of UVB I would imagine you will get high levels of 'not so good' UV rays as well and would not use the lamp until you can figure out more info on what the UV output is.

I would check out the UV Guide website and contact Dr. Baines. She might have some info on the lamp you have. You can also check out the yahoo group 'UVB meters owners club' and ask about the lamp there and get a reply from others with meters.

 

[Dave Weldon]

...I went to test how much UV B the light was emitting and with my Solar meter and only got a reading of 1. I 'm going to experiment more with this light though, there is a glass panel in front of the metal halide bulb that may be blocking the UV B rays....

Howdy,

If the UVB reading substantially increases after removing the glass shield then put the glass back in place . That means the MH light source that is behind the glass shield needs the shield to filter-out not only UVB but also deadly UVC. The only MH light source that I would trust for a reptile UVB application is the one from www.ReptileUV.com. As Summoner12 said, Dr. Baines and others have posted data on the sites he mentioned regarding this issue.

Consider this MH light as a good source of visible lighting but don't expect or try to use it as a UVB source.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Summoner12 Thanks, I'm going to check into those references.

I'm going to the UC Davis greenhouses and consult with them about the bulb types. A friend of mine Ernesto at UC Davis is familiar with halide bulbs and he certain they put out a lot of UV B.
If up and running with UVB I'm not planning to run the metal halide lights for a long time maybe 2 to 3 hours a day until I certain what they are emitting.

Dave I'm absolutely going to look into the www.ReptileUV.com source for healthy UVB halide bulbs.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Thanks for the references I just E-mailed the Bob at ReptileUV.com and will see if I can put together something appropriate.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Thanks I just E mailed Dr. Baines as well. Going to attempt to put this together or else the metal halide will be for the plants only. Summoner12 and Dave thanks for the sources!!

I got no warning about UVC when I purchased the lamp this summer even when the Sun Systerms and their retailer heard what I was planning.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

You have to remove the lens. Cover is put on to protect you from the exposure to rays.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I'm still looking into both sites as precations, to prevent when the greenhouse is up and going that I won't cause my chameleons or my family any unintentional harm.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Just got the E mail back from Reptile UV. They say they have got a bulb that would work that they normally sell to zoos. However, I have to have a liscence and make a consultation call before I'm allowed to purchase this bulb.

I'm going to make a call then go from there.

Thanks for the referrals they already have been very useful.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Thanks I just E mailed Dr. Baines as well. Going to attempt to put this together or else the metal halide will be for the plants only. Summoner12 and Dave thanks for the sources!!

I got no warning about UVC when I purchased the lamp this summer even when the Sun Systerms and their retailer heard what I was planning.

Howdy,

Using this MH as a UVB source is sort of a "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" situation . If you remove the glass shield and it produces measureable UVB then it also probably produces the very dangerous UVC. That is the nature of these commercial lights. If you remove the glass and you still don't measure any UVB then it also won't ever be producing any bad spectral content either. The reason why there could be no UVB, even with the glass removed, is that the particular MH emitter that you have has a safety coating (spectral blocker) on the quartz tube itself to make it safe for use around living organisms (humans). In that case, the removable glass shield that you took off is only there for physical safety like keeping things away from the tube's surface, exploding etc. . The MH setup that ReptileUV sells is specifically made for the application that it is intended - Reptile UVB with the bad spectral content removed.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

I was doing a SEARCH for something else and I ran across one of my old posts regarding the dangers from removing the safety glass filter from one brand of MH light. I decided to cut/paste it here because, over time, it will disappear from this site .

From this 08-22-2008 post: https://www.chameleonforums.com/warning-non-standard-use-metal-halide-mh-lights-15079/#post124893

"From time-to-time, information pops-up suggesting the use of typical commercial (Home Depot etc.) metal halide (MH) light sources, with the glass safety filter removed, as a source of UVB for reptiles. The measurements that I've listed are a subset of the ones in the report made by Mrs. Frances M. Baines, M.A., Vet.M.B., M.R.C.V.S. Fran is part of the team that manages the http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ site.

My super-quick summary: Using a MH with the glass filter removed has to potential to cause disease and death . Why remove the glass safety filter? The filter blocks both UVB and UVC. UVC is basically a biological death-ray. UVC at almost any level is dangerous/deadly. As an example, UVC is used to kill living organisms in water treatment systems.

A very abbreviated summary of Fran's full report:

MexLite double-ended 70watt 5500K metal halide (ONLY 70W!)

Distance......8 inches....24 inches....What it means

UVC uW.....57...............8..............Any at all is DANGEROUS (cancer etc.)

UVB uW....814.............95..............50 is suggested to be towards the high-end for chameleons

UV Index...151.............17..............Even a level like 14 represents desert sunlight. 151 = BBQ

Posts regarding the data can be viewed here.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

In order to access the actual report FILE, you’ll need to join the UVB_Meter_Owners group. Joining this group could expose you to the ridicule of friends and family members who’ll now have direct evidence that you are truly too involved in your chameleon’s husbandry .

The entire report file (if you have access permission):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Me...uble-ended.pdf "

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Thanks again Dave for the information.

Actually the source you gave me Reptile UV has a metal halide bulb designed to emit healthy UV rays suitable for chameleons that will work with my Sun Systems metal halide. I over looked one aspect of what his email said. Zoo's, liscenced herp breeder, or experienced reptile breeds after a consultation call. When classes are over for the quarter here at UC Davis I'm going to make a consultation call.

I'm going to post pictures of the greenhouse when its finally moved. As of today were putting down the railroad ties as a foundation and the gravel base.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I have got to say with all my plants from my greenhouse in the garage (about 68 to 71 degrees right now) underneath the Sun Systems light, I let my panther and parsons out to acquaint them with the metal halide and both have been cruising under the halide light and I think they 're big fans of the new light (glass panel still on and no UVB rays yet).

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I'm seriously considering consulting one of the manufactures that makes glass panels that are UVB friendly to custum make a glass shield to go over my Sun Systems light fixture. The one Spartec in Montana I'm going to approach when I come back from my holiday vacation.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The lens is important and I'm going to keep it, especially with the timed misting sytyem I have got in the greenhouse. I do not want the bulb to explode because of the chameleons watering system.