Mesh turned Hybrid Cage

[Svendar]

I have a juvenile female veiled chameleon. I took a recommendation from a Chameleon Academy youtube video to make her reptibreeze cage a hybrid cage by using a window sealing kit to seal off most of it but leave the bottom of the front open to create a chimney effect. Problem is, it's hard to tell if it's working. Does anyone know if this is going to give her enough air exchange? Also, any other recommendations for how her enclosure could be improved are appreciated!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. Unless you’re in a really dry area, I would suggest leaving the whole door uncovered. What have your humidity levels been?
I do see some things that need to be corrected. I’m not seeing the correct uvb light, which is a linear T5HO fixture with either ReptiSun5.0 or Arcadia 6% uvb bulb. Like this. https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...rcury-vapor/products/zoo-med-reptisun-t5-hood (Btw, that’s actually a really good price for that.) The screw in bulbs just aren’t adequate at all for our chameleons.
You’ve got a humidifier running while lights are on. Heat + high humidity = increased risk for respiratory infection. Adding the potentially decreased air circulation from the full wrapping of the enclosure and the risk becomes just a matter of time.
The enclosure looks to be a bit on the smaller side. The minimum size is 2x2x4’.
It’s so very hard to find correct and current info on keeping chameleons, so I’m very glad that you’re here. With our beautiful ladies, it’s absolutely essential that we have everything as perfect as possible to prevent any problems with their egg laying. I’d love to help you with this. Just need you to answer the following. Then another member or I can review it and help you and your sweet little girl on the path to having many happy and healthy years together.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

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Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Svendar]

Thank you for the tip on the humidity running during the day. That's very helpful, and I didn't know that!
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, female, she seems very young. My profile picture is a current photo of her. We've only had her a couple of weeks.
• Handling - We've tried hard to just leave her alone. We handled her once to take her out of her cage (making sure not to grab her) so that we could add the plastic around because the humidity levels in her cage were very low.
• Feeding - So far she's only eaten crickets. We've tried feeding her other things, but she only goes after the crickets. Also, we try and cup feed her, but she'll only go after the crickets if they escape the cup. For now we are putting 6-8 small crickets in her cage every day in the morning. She usually eats them throughout the day. We assume she's eating all of them because we've only seen 1 or 2 escape and they all disappear. I wish we could cup feed her but it just hasn't seemed to work.
• Supplements - We just got reptivite without Vitamin D3 which we are going to start dusting her crickets with today. I've read that twice a month is a good amount to dust her feed. Is that correct?
• Watering - All we currently have is the humidifier shown in the picture above. We've had it on low throughout the day and higher at night. We'll also spray every once in a while. We don't see her drink much, but we did once a couple days ago.
• Fecal Description - Most her feces that we've noticed has been brown with white. We've not tested her for parasites.
• History - We got her from Petsmart.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - The dimensions are a little small, 16x16x30. We didn't realize when we got her it was that small. We plan on expanding her enclosure.
• Lighting - We have a UVB screw in bulb and a heat screw in bulb. Sounds like we need to get a new UVB bulb.
• Temperature - Her basking spot gets pretty warm. We did try and keep it around 85, but she kept screen climbing and hanging right underneath the bulb so we brought her basking spot a little higher and now it's around 90 and she seems content with that temperature there. The lower part of the cage wee keep around 75 degrees. We test this with a digital thermometer.
• Humidity - It has been difficult for us to measure humidity levels. We bought a hygrometer but it falls frequently so it's hard to gauge what it is. We think it's around 50% during the day with the humidifier on low if our hygrometer is correct. We live in a relatively dry environment which worries me.
• Plants - We are using live plants. We have a ZZ plant and a couple other small house plants inside.
• Placement - Our cage is located in our front room next to our TV. We don't have any other pets and it's only my wife and I who live here. The top of her cage is about 5 feet off the ground.
• Location - We are located in Utah County, UT.

Current Problem - I'm pretty sure she has a respiratory infection. I haven't been able to figure out what was wrong until your response @MissSkittles . I appreciate it a lot. We've tried really hard to take care of her well, but we just weren't as prepared as we should have been when we bought her. We've tried finding an exotic pet vet near us, but the only one that's closer than an hour drive away is out for the entire month of February We're debating going to the vet that's an hour away, but don't want to stress her out too much more. She started closing her eyes during the day and we noticed her raising her nose in the air a few times. Is going to the vet even though it's far away the only thing we can do for her at this point? We'll make sure to get her the reptivite today to see if the vitamins help and we'll keep the humidifier off when the lights are on. How can we keep her humidity levels higher during the day without the humidifier?

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[MissSkittles]

Give me a little bit of time and I’ll have your full review.

 

[MissSkittles]

Putting my feedback in bold. I’ll be breaking this into two parts - not only will I be giving you a lot of info, but I talk a lot.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, female, she seems very young. My profile picture is a current photo of her. We've only had her a couple of weeks. Very cute! She does look very young. My guess is that she is 3 months old or even a little less. For simplicity, I’ll be assuming she’s 3 months old.
• Handling - We've tried hard to just leave her alone. We handled her once to take her out of her cage (making sure not to grab her) so that we could add the plastic around because the humidity levels in her cage were very low. Perfect! Giving her plenty of time to settle in helps her to feel safe. Also, never grab from above - always slowly ease up from below. Building trust is important and here’s a great blog on how to do that. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/
• Feeding - So far she's only eaten crickets. We've tried feeding her other things, but she only goes after the crickets. Also, we try and cup feed her, but she'll only go after the crickets if they escape the cup. For now we are putting 6-8 small crickets in her cage every day in the morning. She usually eats them throughout the day. We assume she's eating all of them because we've only seen 1 or 2 escape and they all disappear. I wish we could cup feed her but it just hasn't seemed to work. Going by her very young age, she should be eating a lot more than that…like at least 15-20 feeders daily right now. Then in about a month you’ll reduce the amount to about 10-12 and in another month, again reduce to about 6-8. Then you’ll reduce to 4-5 every other day. Crickets are a good staple feeder, but variety is best. Some on line vendors sell variety packs of feeders, which are perfect. Check out the forum sponsors. Using a good feeding station will help contain the feeders plus provide your chameleon with always knowing where to find her food. I like this one. https://www.rainbowmealworms.net/shooting-gallery-chameleon-feeder-1/ *it’s pretty easy to craft your own version. The problem with leaving crickets loose in her enclosure is that they will get hungry and try to eat your chameleon at night when she’s asleep. Unless certain that she’s eaten all of her crickets, leave a small piece of lettuce or carrot on the bottom of her enclosure for them.
  Just as important as what you are feeding your cham, is what you are feeding the feeders. Healthy well fed bugs are going to be more nutritious than half starved ones. I don’t specifically gut load, but I do keep my bugs well fed at all times with fresh produce and a small bit of Repashy Bug Burger. See the graphics below.
• Supplements - We just got reptivite without Vitamin D3 which we are going to start dusting her crickets with today. I've read that twice a month is a good amount to dust her feed. Is that correct? There are several different ways to supplement and since you already have the ReptiVite without D3, I’ll tell you the standard regimen. You’ll use a phosphorus free calcium without D3 lightly dusted at every feeding except one per week. For that one weekly feeding you’ll be alternating between using either the ReptiVite without D3 and a phosphorus free calcium with D3. It’ll be that each one is given for one feeding every other week.
• Watering - All we currently have is the humidifier shown in the picture above. We've had it on low throughout the day and higher at night. We'll also spray every once in a while. We don't see her drink much, but we did once a couple days ago. Spraying/misting is ideally done for at least 2 minutes 2-3 times daily - before lights go on and off and mid day is optional. Some chose to use a dripper for about 15-20 minutes mid day instead. Many chameleons are very secretive about drinking (like all of mine ) Just mist/spray and walk away. Eventually you may want to invest in a misting system like Mist King.
• Fecal Description - Most her feces that we've noticed has been brown with white. We've not tested her for parasites. The white is urate (urine) and that is a good color and means she is well hydrated. If you are seeing that it is all or mostly orange or dark, she isn’t drinking enough. It’s always a good idea to have a fecal check done. Pet stores do not do them.
• History - We got her from Petsmart.

To be continued….

 

[MissSkittles]

• Cage Type - The dimensions are a little small, 16x16x30. We didn't realize when we got her it was that small. We plan on expanding her enclosure. She’s so tiny now, but as quick as a blink, she’ll be a big adult lady and needing more space. If you can give her more than the minimum 2x2x4’, that would be awesome.
• Lighting - We have a UVB screw in bulb and a heat screw in bulb. Sounds like we need to get a new UVB bulb. Yes. The dual dome fixture is great though as you can put a plant light in the other side. I like Sansi and are some of these (along with their 70w boxes). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BRKG7X1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Keeping lights on a 12 hour schedule is best and using a timer makes it easiest.
• Temperature - Her basking spot gets pretty warm. We did try and keep it around 85, but she kept screen climbing and hanging right underneath the bulb so we brought her basking spot a little higher and now it's around 90 and she seems content with that temperature there. Way too hot! For a little one and a girl, you don’t want the temp to exceed 80. We used to bake our chams, but learned they do better and it’s more natural to be cooler. The lower part of the cage wee keep around 75 degrees. We test this with a digital thermometer. No heat at night and hopefully you can achieve a good chilly night.
• Humidity - It has been difficult for us to measure humidity levels. We bought a hygrometer but it falls frequently so it's hard to gauge what it is. We think it's around 50% during the day with the humidifier on low if our hygrometer is correct. We live in a relatively dry environment which worries me. Ideal daytime humidity for veileds is between 30-50%. You may want to try a hygrometer that has a probe end, like this. https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Rept...28&sprefix=Digital+hygrometer,aps,159&sr=8-10 Some like the smart ones like Govee https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R586J3...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
• Plants - We are using live plants. We have a ZZ plant and a couple other small house plants inside. Perfect! No fake plants! Yay! Since our veileds will nibble their plants, it’s important that they are live and safe. Here’s a great resource for plants. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Pothos is your new bestie and I try to keep extras around.
• Placement - Our cage is located in our front room next to our TV. We don't have any other pets and it's only my wife and I who live here. The top of her cage is about 5 feet off the ground. Height = safety for chams.
• Location - We are located in Utah County, UT.

Current Problem - I'm pretty sure she has a respiratory infection. I haven't been able to figure out what was wrong until your response @MissSkittles . I appreciate it a lot. We've tried really hard to take care of her well, but we just weren't as prepared as we should have been when we bought her. As I said before, it’s not easy to find the correct and current husbandry info…there’s just too much out there that’s all wrong. Sadly, pet store employees usually are of little help and can make things worse, with wrong info and selling you wrong stuff.uWe've tried finding an exotic pet vet near us, but the only one that's closer than an hour drive away is out for the entire month of February We're debating going to the vet that's an hour away, but don't want to stress her out too much more. It’s either risk the stress or she may not be here in a month. Make the drive. Put her in a box and she will eventually fall asleep for the whole trip. Compared to how far some need to travel, an hour’s drive is nothing. I take my chams to the vet that is an hour away. She started closing her eyes during the day and we noticed her raising her nose in the air a few times. Is going to the vet even though it's far away the only thing we can do for her at this point? Yes! She needs antibiotics and there is no other substitute. We soften the severity when we say ’respiratory infection’ - it’s really a pneumonia. We'll make sure to get her the reptivite today to see if the vitamins help and we'll keep the humidifier off when the lights are on. How can we keep her humidity levels higher during the day without the humidifier? Keeping the back and sides wrapped is good as are live plants. Is your household humidity really below 30% though?
While I don’t want to overwhelm you any more than I already may have, are you aware that she will produce and lay eggs even though she may not ever even see a boy? She can do this as young as 5-6 months. It does tend to decrease their life spans, so we try to reduce their egg production through diet and temp. When you are ready, we can go thru all of that. Right now, get the soonest vet appointment and get your sweet little girl on some meds and start making the changes I suggested. Do ask as many questions as you like/need. Keeping chameleons is not the easiest of things to do and the forum is an awesome place for support.

 

[Svendar]

Thank you so much @MissSkittles !!! I got an appointment to take her to the vet today. We'll work on making all those adjustments soon so that she can be happy. Do you have a link to any resource that can prepare us for what to do when she starts laying eggs? I was not aware of that.

 

[MissSkittles]

I keep meaning to write up a blog on care and laying of veiled chams, but insecurity is my enemy. There’s a great article here that explains reducing egg production.http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html
From as young as 5-6 months, she can start producing eggs. You’ll know this as it starts with her developing her pretty colors of teal and mustard/orange and patterns as she becomes receptive for mating. Then she gets restless, searching for a boy all day. This is when you want to put a lay bin in as a permanent part of her enclosure.
At least a 12” wide and long container with some tiny drainage holes in the bottom, filled to about 6” deep with washed play sand OR 50/50 mix of play sand and organic soil makes a perfect lay bin. The substrate needs to be moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. If you are super observant, you’ll be able to figure out the area that she likes to poo and can place the bin out of the line of fire.
She can be receptive for a couple of weeks. During this time she may have a decreased appetite. From approx 3 weeks after that phase ends she may lay at any time. She’ll start getting plump and maybe lumpy. Regular weighing on a gram scale is of big help to know when she is producing eggs and possibly close to laying. As she’s getting bigger, she may move less and the closer she gets to laying, the less she may want to eat. Nothing has ever interfered with my girls’ appetites - they are all different. One morning she won’t be in her usual basking spot and after hunting for her, you’ll see she’s in her bin and digging. Cover just the lower half of her enclosure and do not disturb her for anything! Nothing! Unless your house is on fire, just leave her to do her thing. If she sees anyone, she may stop digging and this could lead to becoming egg-bound. She may dig a few holes until she likes one and then she’ll dig to the bottom, turn around and lay. She’ll fully cover all of the holes and when she’s satisfied, will return to her basking branch. The whole process can take a couple of days and she may sleep in her tunnel. My girls return to their sleep spot at night. You’ll want to feed and hydrate her very well for a couple of days. Hornworms and silkworms are great at this time. Then return her to a reduced diet regimen of 3-4 feeders 3 days a week. At some point you’ll need to remove the eggs and count them. Hopefully there’s less than 30. They will rot, so toss them.
The reducing regimen can work so well that she may stop producing eggs completely. Each chameleon is of course different. One of my veiled girls hasn’t laid any eggs since Feb 2020! The other lays once a year a clutch in the mid 30’s. They can still be receptive and never lay. I’m never quite sure what is going on with my girls’ egg production and I pretty much take it as it comes. Their weights go up significantly and then back down, with no eggs laid. Colors flare up and nothing happens. If your husbandry is spot on, the likelihood of having laying problems is greatly decreased (it’s never zero).

 

[Svendar]

Thanks again @MissSkittles . I just got back from the vet. She wasn't exhibiting any abnormal behaviors with the vet and he said that she was too small to run any tests other than a parasite test with her feces. Are there any at-home tests I could do for that? Also, he didn't give us any medications or anything, he says to just hope she starts feeling better. Hopefully that will be enough.

 

[MissSkittles]

The vet didn’t think she had a respiratory infection? Besides closing her eyes during the day, what other symptoms have you noticed? For how long does she keep her nose pointed up? Have you noticed any popping or other noises as she breathes? Thick or stringy saliva? Open-mouthed gaping?
Hopefully it’s not a respiratory infection and with the advised husbandry changes she’ll be okay. It’s so hard with the little ones as they have zero resources to fall back on and if one piece of care is off, they can quickly fail. The most important corrections are uvb light, supplements and feeding.

 

[Svendar]

He kept avoiding confirming whether or not he suspected she had one... I haven't seen her lift her nose up at all or open her mouth the past couple days. I haven't seen any saliva or heard any noises. So, hopefully she's going to be alright. I ordered the UVB light and a digital hygrometer that should get here in the next couple days.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’d guess he didn’t know. I have difficulty sometimes listening to full grown human lung sounds - I can’t imagine how hard it would be to listen to tiny chameleon ones. If she hasn’t been showing any symptoms in the past couple of days, hopefully her little lungs are ok. When chams get too hot, they will gape too.