Mellers please help

[jooshoowa]

My Mellers lately has started to poo only around every 7-9 days. Just one giant one. Urates are white and the poo looks normal. The vet last march had me put the chameleon on calcium with d3 and calcium without twice a week and I also give repcal herptivite every 2 weeks on top. Last march she was 250 gr and now she is 363.
They had me put her on it because the exams had shown deficiency in her jaw as she was loosing teeth. She still has some left but very little. Is she able to digest and get all the nutrients from the food as I've noticed they kinda just swallow their food. My ambient temps in the room are around 74 degrees far and the basking spot is right in around 90 f. I had a 50 watt bulb for basking and a repti sun 18" 5.0 uvb tube. She eats for example about 5 jumbo grasshoppers (zoo med canned), 8 superworms(zoo med canned), and crickets on occasions seems to have kinda gone off them. She also eats about 6 pillars(zoo med canned) and 2-3 adult roach(dubai) every other week. I also have a monsoon which goes off every 6 hours for 2 minutes and I mist for 15 minutes in the morning and 15-20 in the evening until I see her visibly start drinking and grooming her eyes.
I have a Large fern and 2 pothos plants in there and it is a 175 gallon exo terra mesh cage with coconut husk on the bottom for extra humidity and also to take out reflections from the floor. I change it often.

She locks on to prey very well and very alert to her surroundings, great eye movement and her accuracy is spot on!

Please let me know your thoughts about the amount of food and etc for this species as there are so many conflicting sites.

Thanks so much guys
Josh

 

[camimom]

Why are you feeding canned bugs? she should be eating live bugs.

 

[thephotoprincess]

Ditto what camimom said. Part of the nutrition that chameleons get is by us "gutloading" the bugs the chameleons eat - feeding the bugs healthy vegtables and fruits and grains so that that nutrition is getting to the chameleon. adding calcium and even vitamins is not replacing the lack of nutrition.

pooping once a week is not a problem. my melleri go once or twice a week depending on how much they have eaten.

 

[carol5208]

so the only live bugs you feed are Dubia then, and everything else is dead ?

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi! Welcome! I admit I'm a bit curious about why you're feeding canned as well. Is that in deference to her lack of teeth?

 

[jooshoowa]

Because I don't have access to live grasshoppers this time of year and or pillars. She doesn't like silkworms or hornworms. as for supers I haven't tried. Zoo med says the canned food is farm raised and gutloaded already

crickets and dubai are what I gutload myself... the only live food she gets right now

 

[Carlton]

Because I don't have access to live grasshoppers this time of year and or pillars. She doesn't like silkworms or hornworms. as for supers I haven't tried. Zoo med says the canned food is farm raised and gutloaded already

crickets and dubai are what I gutload myself... the only live food she gets right now

The canned bugs probably have a lot less moisture in them than live healthy gutloaded bugs do. If she can't eat live feeders what about raising them normally and just killing them right before she eats them? Right now her meals are pretty dense material...that could affect how often she poops. I know you said her urates are white, but she should be going more often than 7-9 days! Why all the extra calcium? You can overdo it and it can cause organ problems that could also be affecting her "schedule". If she's always slightly dehydrated but not enough to show the classic signs this can also affect her GI activity.

 

[jooshoowa]

When I took her to the vet last march(3 weeks after i got her) she put me on this schedule because her jaw was showing signs lost bone density as why her teeth were probably falling out. The calcium I use says 12 dusted crickets for every 71 grams of body weight. I don't do as much as that but just try to make sure she gets calcium. This only started the last 2-3 weeks.
I'm thinking because of the jumbo grasshoppers could be responsible for the longer digestion??
I'm trying my best to keep her hydrated... doesn't take well to drinking from plants. She came from a previous keeper you must have misted her to get her to drink so that is what I do twice a day along with the monsoon mister.

 

[jooshoowa]

the only thing added differently to her diet is the canned jumbo grasshoppers. Everything else was fed to her when I got her as soon as she would take from my hand

 

[jooshoowa]

How big is your mellers??? Mine is 363 weighed her last week. How much a week do you feed yours????

Photoprincess

 

[camimom]

You can order bugs online that are live and much better than that canned crap.
mulberryfarms.com sells various worms in various sizes and amounts.

I would really stop feeding the canned stuff.

Also, if you have a petco near you, they sell live worms too.

 

[thephotoprincess]

How big is your mellers??? Mine is 363 weighed her last week. How much a week do you feed yours????

Photoprincess

Ours range in size from 150 grams to over 300 grams. They are currently eating crickets, dubia, silkworms, superworms and occasionally horn worms and butter worms. We feed every other day and the amount depends on the size of the feeder. Somewhere between 5-8 bugs every other day, less if the bugs are larger. That's mostly for the smaller ones, the larger get less but he mostly chooses to eat less. He's not growing like the others.

I gutload with cricket crack and bug burger for the crickets and dubia along with carrots, apples, squash, sweet potato and dandelion greens. The super worms get super chow and similar veggies/greens. I dust with Repashy Calcium Plus

 

[jooshoowa]

Photoprincess here is an example of what she ate for 2 weeks

Sun-2 jumbo grasshoppers(repti calcium)(canned)
Tuesday-3 adult roaches (rep cal mulit)
Wed- Jumbo Grasshopper, 5 superworms(canned)
Fri- Jumob Grasshopper, 3 catepillars( canned)
Sat- Poo

Then next week
Sun 2 supers(1 repti calcium)(canned)
Mon 2 Jumbo grasshoppers(calcium)(canned)
Wed 7 superworms
Thurs 2 Jumob Grasshoppers
Sat 1 jumbo grasshopper, 5 superworms

Next poo was 9 days after last

She hasn't been taking crickets much lately
I live in canada so its hard for me to find large insects that are live.

Is this a good amount of food??? supplementing too much??
She is 363 grams(going through another shed)

I also noticed that my repti-safe contains electrolytes including calcium but it does not specify the amount
should I change to one without calcium or just cut my dusting right down

 

[thephotoprincess]

My concern is not the amount but the quality. There are members on here from Canada so perhaps they could help you find live food. If you can get crickets and dubia live then that is what I would stick with and avoid the rest.

Superworms are not the best choice as a staple when alive so I would think that the dried canned superworms are even worse.

As I said, mine poop about once a week - maybe every five days so I'm less concerned about that - I think she probably is a bit dehydrated. Live food and more misting would help that.

The teeth falling out is a problem. Rather than dusting with calcium maybe try liquid calcium? Has she had an x-ray? Is the vet concerned about MBD or given you a reason why this could be happening?

 

[jooshoowa]

Okay fair enough I was just trying to up the protein with the grasshoppers in her diet as that was one thing the vet had sad. Her cell count was a little low. Also her x-ray showed bone density loss in her jaw and then prescribed me to give her calcium no d3 and calcium with d3 twice a week. She didn't have sever bone loss when she was x-rayed just some minor areas but enough to make her teeth fall out in her jaw. Her calcium to phosphorus at the time was also 7:3 when then ran blood tests. In which she said she was drawing the extra from her bones..
I'm going to take her to the vet again but unfortunately I'm leaving on a trip in a couple of days for 3 weeks and asking my help to handle it can't really be trusted. Otherwise she seems very healthy. Eyes look great, firm grip, very strong tail and a healthy weight.
I will look into other feeders for live prey but I don't understand why zoo med would say they are already gutloaded and they are crap to feed. I always thought they were very reputable.
She seems to be ignoring crickets for most part now as well the past couple of months. Maybe getting bored I suppose.
I will get her to the vet when I get back from my trip.

 

[camimom]

Okay fair enough I was just trying to up the protein with the grasshoppers in her diet as that was one thing the vet had sad. Her cell count was a little low. Also her x-ray showed bone density loss in her jaw and then prescribed me to give her calcium no d3 and calcium with d3 twice a week. She didn't have sever bone loss when she was x-rayed just some minor areas but enough to make her teeth fall out in her jaw. Her calcium to phosphorus at the time was also 7:3 when then ran blood tests. In which she said she was drawing the extra from her bones..
I'm going to take her to the vet again but unfortunately I'm leaving on a trip in a couple of days for 3 weeks and asking my help to handle it can't really be trusted. Otherwise she seems very healthy. Eyes look great, firm grip, very strong tail and a healthy weight.
I will look into other feeders for live prey but I don't understand why zoo med would say they are already gutloaded and they are crap to feed. I always thought they were very reputable.
She seems to be ignoring crickets for most part now as well the past couple of months. Maybe getting bored I suppose.
I will get her to the vet when I get back from my trip.

zoomed itself is a good brand but the canned stuff ruins any nutrients the bugs had when alive.
Yea, they say they were gutloaded, but with what? I mean, ive bought crickets from petsmart who said they were gutloaded, and when i asked with what.. they said with the yellow or orange cubes.
That stuff is not a good gutload. A good gutload is fresh fruits and veggies, nuts, greens, seeds, etc.
if you notice hwen you get those canned bugs, there seems to be a gel or something on them... its from how they ae preserved and processed.
SO just because it says gutloaded, doesnt mean it was done properly.

Live bugs not only provides better, nutrients, but it keeps your cham stimulated. I understand that some of her teeth have fallen out, and i truely hope you can get her the help she needs with that, but the canned stuff just isnt going to help her in any way.
You can get softer worms that dont require as much strength, or in this case, teeth to eat.
Like hornworms, calci (pheonix worms these can be used as a daily/staple feeder), waxworms, butterworm, silk worms (and these can be used as a daily/staple feeder)
normally we recommend crickets, dubias, and locusts as a staple feeder, but if she is missing teeth, she may have a hard time chewing it because of the missing teeth.
I dont want to sound harsh, but the canned stuff just is NOT going to help her feel better from whatever is causing her soft jaw.

 

[jooshoowa]

Advice is definately good. The canned stuff says things like jumbo hoppers 20.2 % protein, 0gr fat, 4% fiber, 2.1%ash etc. So I thought it was good as her growing has been going very well ever since I've had her. From last march grew from 250-363??
Whenever I do feed her roaches I do kill them first cause she has a had time keeping them in her mouth. Crickets aren't a problem to her at all but has gone off them a bit lately. I added the jumbo grasshoppers as stimulant and she went nuts. I'm going to get live worms when I get back and gutload them myself for sure. I've tried silkworms trust me... many of times and unfortunately she won't take them and she gets angry for some reason and same with hornworms.

All the canned stuff just says farm raised but I noticed the catepillars do work for a fiber boost whenever they are eaten she poo's the next day as it says they are high in fiber 6%.

Also with these canned foods I haven't noticed any gel on them zoo med retorts them by cooking them in the can? It would definately be nice if they would give more information further then saying packed with nutrition your pets need from latest research. I have found some butterworm places here in canada I can get some from so I will add that and turn to live supers and see what happens. This summer I'm really going to get out and get alot of live insects.

Anyone have any idea on freezing them, like how long they would hold their nutrients for??? I read on cin that you should freeze them within 30 mins to preserve their gutload or they will most likely drop it from stress.

 

[Elizadolots]

You might contact Great Lakes Hornworms. They are a board sponsor and indicate on their site that people outside the US should contact them first before ordering. That sort of sounds like they might be able to ship outside the U.S.

 

[jooshoowa]

Sounds good I will look into that. I fed her 2 adult roaches so far this week. She is being tough with smaller insects as of late. As soon as she see's something big she attacks ahahaha.
She is going through a shed right now as well. She is just about 24" inches now. Thanks for the info again and any other comments please post especially If anyone has experience with Mellers. All the other ones that were bought from the same batch all passed within a month of being purchased.
Would anyone have any idea the age of a Mellers this size???