Mbd

[carol5208]

I would like to say Dayna that I know you are highly respected here on this forum by 99.9% of the members(myself included) and we cannot thank you enough for all the FREE advice you give out on a daily basis. We are all very lucky to have you as part of this community!

 

[FrankTheTank]

I hate that this thread has turned from someone trying to get help to the conversation about the practicality of vets. I HIGHLY respect the advice of the vets on this forum that know much more about chameleon illnesses than anyone else on here. I am so appreciative that yall take time out of your busy lives to post regularly on these forums. I can't say I would do the same. You guys are awesome. I do understand that not all vets are as knowledgable about chameleons as you guys are but that's no excuse to knock the profession. Thanks to all who do offer sound advice vet or not.

Now to the op...I commend you for doing what you can to find advice on how to treat this chameleon. This is an amazing place to get help for sick chams. Especially with these awesome veterinarians! Good luck with the little guy!

 

[carol5208]

yes, as this thread became a bit sidetracked, I forgot to say to the OP I hope that you will give the little guy a fighting chance and wish you the best luck in your endeavor.

 

[symphonica]

Alright, vets. Let's hear what should be done for this cham besides putting him in proper husbandry and possibly administering injectable calcium?

And FYI, I went to vet shool, as mentioned above. Even graduated (guess that technically makes me a DVM), but found a much more profitable field and never actually put my vet-ness into practice. So, I'm not some kid with no experience running his mouth.

I didn't specialize in chameleons or reptiles, so I can say with experience that for MBD, besides X-rays to determine degree of MBD and possibly injectable calcium, there is not much more they can do.

Again, I cannot stress enough the point of my initial post (which everyone seems to have missed and taken off with in the wrong direction), THERE IS NOTHING MORE EFFECTIVE THAN YOU MAINTAINING NEAR PERFECT HUSBANDRY. You don't need a vet for that. There is absolutely nothing vets can do if he is kept in poor husbandry.

Or is a vet and her special education and training able to stop MBD for a chameleon who is never gutloaded, supplemented, or provided UVB?

 

[symphonica]

To discredit the entire profession over one health problem that is generally one that is corrected primarily at home (which is why I posted the entire treatment protocol in addition to physiology on a public thread) is a bit harsh don't you think?

Again, the original post was in reference to general vets being able to not do much for MBD. So yeah, I was referring to "one health problem that is corrected primarily at home." I wasn't the one who generalized that the every chameleon illness and every vet out there. You guys did that by jumping the gun. reread all the posts and you'll see my first post about vets. Hmmm, is it talking about vets for MBD? Or discrediting vets for all chameleon illnesses? I even blatantly stated this in my following post, since there were a few who like to turn anything around to initiate an argument. "I can't believe you said that, blah, blah, blah!" It's like when you tell a kid not to do something and they go and tell people you "yelled" at them.

 

[xraygirl]

I would like to say Dayna that I know you are highly respected here on this forum by 99.9% of the members(myself included) and we cannot thank you enough for all the FREE advice you give out on a daily basis. We are all very lucky to have you as part of this community!

Especially since I offer so much free advice on a multitude of health problems posted here on the forums. I guess that's not appreciated... I don't want to start a war of words over this. But I didn't start it either.

The vets here are amazing, of all threads I read I learn so much from them. You all have my respect, and I love that you care to get on here in your busy schedules to help SO people out!

And I also get a little excited when one of our 'great wonders' comment on them.... This goes for Olympia, Carol, Jann, and Sandra and others.

You all are very much appreciated in my book for your wealth of knowledge! Thank you for all that you do!

 

[pigglett79]

Dear Ruchul,

I am very sorry your thread has become derailed and turned in to an ugly mess. Please don't think that this is an example of how this forum usually operates and become deterred from obtaining useful information. Please do read the links provided and know that the chameleon you are trying to save does definitely have a fighting chance if given proper care. I would take ferrits advice and PM her as well as use the search function and read as much as you can about MBD on this forum.

 

[fluxlizard]

I would like to say Dayna that I know you are highly respected here on this forum by 99.9% of the members(myself included) and we cannot thank you enough for all the FREE advice you give out on a daily basis. We are all very lucky to have you as part of this community!

Me too. We are very fortunate to have ferret's active participation here on the forums. It really is a great kindness from the vets who participate here.

THERE IS NOTHING MORE EFFECTIVE THAN YOU MAINTAINING NEAR PERFECT HUSBANDRY.

Good luck starting at that point when the chameleon isn't feeding and is lethargic and looks bad enough that the original owner wanted to put it down.

During the decades I've had these guys, I can honestly say that I've never required the services of a vet apart from diagnostic or Rx purposes.

decades?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/self-introduction-124177/

Make sure the syringe is far down enough where it's bypassing the opening to the airway.

looks like even experts learn things on the forums...

 

[symphonica]

decades?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/self-introduction-124177/



looks like even experts learn things on the forums...

Wow, a bit desperate and stalkerish much? Honestly a bit creeped out that this concerned you enough where you actually took the time to go back to search...

Was referring to herp, not just chameleons. Do you know what herp are? Bearded dragons, tortoises, turtles, geckos, snakes, gators...

And the OP is a vet tech, who mentioned having to force feed as a last option. I'm sure she's capable of passing a syringe into a chameleon without causing damage like most inexperienced newbies would do, and cause more harm than good. As someone in the medical field, installing a feeding tube should be second nature to them. As long as they are made aware of how aspirations occur in chameleons, she's experienced enough where the technique is safe to cover. After all, she's not some completely new member that we have no background on, with her first reptile being a chameleon, who thinks that force feeding is just about getting a syringe into their mouths while they're open, and expelling the contents of it while the syringe made it into their open mouths...


If I had my own x-ray equipment, a good quality microscope, my own lab to analyze blood samples, and the ability to prescribe meds, I wouldn't be seeing a vet for my herp, unless they required surgery.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

If I had my own x-ray equipment, a good quality microscope, my own lab to analyze blood samples, and the ability to prescribe meds, I wouldn't be seeing a vet for my herp, unless they required surgery.

Your argument is basically "if I could do everything the vet did then I wouldn't need the vet". Obviously! But you can't. And thus, the need for vets because we have the training to do all of that.

 

[fluxlizard]

Wow, stalker much?

No not really- it's just that you haven't been here that long, you post a lot and I like your user name (I like music) so you sort of stood out when you introduced yourself and I remembered that you did not have "decades" experience with chameleons.

Maybe if you are uncomfortable having your public posts read, you shouldn't use forums...

If I had my own x-ray equipment, a good quality microscope, my own lab to analyze blood samples, and the ability to prescribe meds, I wouldn't be seeing a vet for my herp, unless they required surgery.

I thought you see a vet every time you look in the mirror? What is special about being able to do this when you graduated vet school?

 

[pigglett79]

Symphonica, I have to say I'm very disappointed. Someone comes here for help and you turn it in to a thread all about you. No one really cares if you are as educated as a vet. Perhaps you are that good, but the majority are not. People stumble upon this site looking for knowledge and help. When you turn their plea for help in to an arrogant pissing match all you are doing is preventing someone from getting the help they need. No one needs your input at this point. Why you are greedy for attention right now I don't know, but you are depriving the OP of what they came here for.

 

[PoshPenny]

You're a general vet (not chameleon specified) and have treated all of these in chameleons? Nonetheless, those are all very familiar to us. I will admit, you would have to go to a vet for surgery. However, how many chameleon surgeries has a general vet performed?

Ferret doesn't have to give us free advise. Or free help. Or take time on this forum at all. She is awesome because she chooses to do so out of the kindness of her heart. Christ, I have to pay 50 bucks just to talk to my specialist and ferret answers our questions free on here! Seriously!?

Symphonica- your recent posts make you sound really disrespectful. If no one else will say it, I will. You just sound really rude. Hell I'm not even a vet and I'm offended.

(Wow there was like 10 posts while I was posting)

 

[teejayteej]

I have not been a member that long but I can say that I have learned a lot from the information that i find from Ferret and Dr. O, so if I have anything to say it is to use the information that you fine on this site to help your little friend get better and .... back to what he looks like. he could use a few good stream baths to get him feeling better as well. this may help the appetite improve even if he/she is not feeling up to par. The first thing that I noticed was the eyes and dry skin.
But I am not a vet and the best information I can give is to private message the docs and get a more in-depth treatment plan.

 

[ataraxia]

Im not sure why everyone is jumping on this member. To be completely honest, what i have read from the first page is fine. We now have a bandwagon of pitch forks and torches...This member came here for help. Not your opinion of another member.

Ruchul: To help your little one.
1. If you live where the weather will allow you to subject this little one to natural sunlight, do so. If you dont, buy a brand new linear tube style 10.0 uvb bulb (Dont use a old or used bulb) and make sure the animal is within proper exposure distance to the bulb.
2. Liquid calcium. I personally use calcionate syrup. (I know you are well versed with animals but i cant help but to be a little cautious) With him being weak make sure to take your time administering fluids as he will be susceptible to aspirating much faster than a healthy animal. I have read that your a vet tech and have access to a vet. (This would be the best option as Fluxlizard has posted before) Properly placing a feeding tube to administer the nutrients. Administering: I would do this in small amounts a couple times a day versus giving it all in one dose. This should be done daily.
3. A Good multivitamin. I would in this case recommend herptivite. I would give this once a week right now.
4. Im sure it has been some time now that he has eaten. I would compose your food slurry of insects. Like the calcium, I would also give this in small amounts a few times a day.
5. Proper temps. Hes not going to be able to move in and out to thermoregulate. Since you have him in re-hab tank/tote/enclosure. Try to make the area he is in, in the mid 80's.
6. Lots of time and patience. This isnt something that is reversed overnight or even days for that matter. You have a long haul ahead of you and i wish you luck.

 

[PoshPenny]

Getting back on topic too, (puts down pitch fork) megaray bulbs are really great for Mbd treatment too. They cost about 45.00.

 

[Brandi2014]

my experience caring for a reptile with mbd

My husband and I just helped our baby bearded dragon recover from MBD. We took him to the vet twice they gave him calcium injections at each visit. For 2 weeks we had to feed him a "shake" with a syringe, because he didn’t have the strength or desire to eat. We feed him a herbivore meal supplement powder the vet gave us, you mix it with water at a 3 to 1 ratio. It contains calcium and protein and lots of other vitamins. It reminded us of Insure for reptiles.

Our little guy has recovered and is now eating like a fatty and has more than doubled in weight. He went from 8 grams to 20 grams in 1 month. We fed the "shake" 3 times a day to start out, and gave him lots of water with each shake to keep him hydrated.

After a couple of weeks we backed off on the shake to get him to eat bugs. When he would eat we made sure to always dust with calcium with each feeding, per vets instructions. The recovery is slow at first but... with lots of love/ UVB and supplements your reptile can recover. Make sure you have a good quality UVB light that you leave on 12 hours a day. We got a Mega Ray mercury vapor for our beardie, but that might make the cage way too hot for your chameleon. But go with a high quality light that keeps the basking shot 85 degrees. I wish you the best of luck with the little guy, it is really rewarding to help them recover, because you know without your care they wouldn’t make it.

 

[PoshPenny]

That's awesome about your beardie. There is a megaray 80 I think for chams. I'd have to hunt down the email the cust care department sent me when I emailed them when purchasing mine last year. I will admit I had a hard time keeping my temps right. They would spike to the 90's in the afternoons. Finally I got the 10.0 reptizoom.

 

[Ruchul]

So we have made it 3 days. I have made a cricket slurry with calcium shake mixed in. I got a UVB light for 12 hours of exposure and a basking light for 12 hours. Im still having to force food and water down him. He is moving around more but is still holding his head. I took an xray and you can barely see any of his bones. I will contiue to try to keep him alive, I just don't want him to suffer. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[zsazsa85]

Yes please do! Don't give up! He needs patience, at least you can put some food in him. So the x-ray was that bad?