Mbd ?!?!

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
Do you have any photos of your chameleon? What species is he and how old? Do you supplement with calcium powders, and if so, what kind? Does he have a UVB bulb?

MBD is caused by a deficiency of calcium in the body. Calcium is an important mineral just just for strong bones and teeth, but it is used in every single muscle movement you make, for example. So when there isn't enough calcium in the system, the muscles and organs start pulling it out of your bones, which is why it leads to bent, broken, and deformed bones.

This is caused by a couple issues, or a combination of them. These are the main ones:

1. Not enough calcium provided in the diet (either no calcium powder supplements at all and/or too many feeders with a low Ca value)
2. Too much vitamin D3 in powder form, which inhibits calcium absorption when in high concentrations
3. No access to a UVB bulb/UVB is expired

The damage left to the bones may never correct itself, especially breaks in the bones. But the deficiency itself can be corrected. You need to provide calcium and a UVB bulb or plenty of outside time (under natural sunshine). We'll need to know more about your chameleon to help you more. If it is severe you should go to a vet, who will be able to give you liquid calcium and guide you better for his specific needs.
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
Filling this in with as much detail as possible will help us tremendously:

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful
 

Lewis321

New Member
He is a male veiled chameleon , he is about 2years old . I have had him since he was 6weeks old .

He is handled every day ( oh I forgot to mention he does not seem to use he tongue anymore ?) as I have to manually place food in his mouth. It can vary how much he eats one day he might eat 20 bugs then another only 2. He is fed every day around 5pm and he is getting mealworms, wax worms , locusts and crickets, that are gut-loaded with fruit and veg. He gets Repti-Calcium with D3 twice a month ( I am currently waiting for plain calcium to arrive in the post). His vivarium is sprayed about 3 times a day i see him drink the drops off the sprayer and has a waterfall at the bottom of his tank . His droppings are brown and white with a bit of yellow . He had a parasite test a few months ago and he had worms which are now gone . He has a wooden vivarium with glass doors and a wire top . It is 42x62x92. He has a standard 150w heat bulb and a Exo-terra UVB bulb. He has both lights on from 8am till 10pm . His basking spot is around 29c and at the bottom 19 I measure these with an Exo-terra thermostat. The humidity is around 70-80% I measure these with an electronic humidity gage . There is a dracaena plant and a spineless yuka. The vivarium is about a meter above the ground not near any air vents or high traffic areas. I am located in uk , Scottish Borders . Stitch ( my chameleon ) has MBD . !
 

Lewis321

New Member
He is a male veiled chameleon , he is about 2years old . I have had him since he was 6weeks old .

He is handled every day ( oh I forgot to mention he does not seem to use he tongue anymore ?) as I have to manually place food in his mouth. It can vary how much he eats one day he might eat 20 bugs then another only 2. He is fed every day around 5pm and he is getting mealworms, wax worms , locusts and crickets, that are gut-loaded with fruit and veg. He gets Repti-Calcium with D3 twice a month ( I am currently waiting for plain calcium to arrive in the post). His vivarium is sprayed about 3 times a day i see him drink the drops off the sprayer and has a waterfall at the bottom of his tank . His droppings are brown and white with a bit of yellow . He had a parasite test a few months ago and he had worms which are now gone . He has a wooden vivarium with glass doors and a wire top . It is 42x62x92. He has a standard 150w heat bulb and a Exo-terra UVB bulb. He has both lights on from 8am till 10pm . His basking spot is around 29c and at the bottom 19 I measure these with an Exo-terra thermostat. The humidity is around 70-80% I measure these with an electronic humidity gage . There is a dracaena plant and a spineless yuka. The vivarium is about a meter above the ground not near any air vents or high traffic areas. I am located in uk , Scottish Borders . Stitch ( my chameleon ) has MBD . !

And liquid calcium in his water
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
It doesn't surprise me that he's not using his tongue. Like I mentioned, calcium is present in every electrical signal that your muscles receive, so if there isn't enough calcium to go around then he'll start losing function and coordination. That's a pretty typical side-effect, unfortunately.

Ok, you're getting plain calcium in the mail which is good. You'll need to start dusting all your feeders with this daily once you get it. Not excessively coated, but dust everything you feed him.

How old is the UVB light?

Do you have any photos of him right now? I'd love to see how he looks physically, it'll help me (and others) in what we suggest. If the MBD is really bad, for example, we actually recommend that you put the chameleon in a cage that is low and horizontal, so they don't fall and break bones.
 

dom1959

New Member
try to get some calcium glubonate, you can use a syrynge to drip it in his mouth.
got mine at beardeddragonbreeder.net
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
If he has MBD you first have to correct the problematic then make sure your husbandry is right to keep it from recurring.
 

Lewis321

New Member
This is him just waking up
 

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Lewis321

New Member
It doesn't surprise me that he's not using his tongue. Like I mentioned, calcium is present in every electrical signal that your muscles receive, so if there isn't enough calcium to go around then he'll start losing function and coordination. That's a pretty typical side-effect, unfortunately.

Ok, you're getting plain calcium in the mail which is good. You'll need to start dusting all your feeders with this daily once you get it. Not excessively coated, but dust everything you feed him.

How old is the UVB light?

Do you have any photos of him right now? I'd love to see how he looks physically, it'll help me (and others) in what we suggest. If the MBD is really bad, for example, we actually recommend that you put the chameleon in a cage that is low and horizontal, so they don't fall and break bones.

The UVB is about 6months old
 

Haze1981

Member
I think you might need to update your uvb light and make sure you dust the feeders with plain calcium (when it arrives) on every feeding. Also why do you feed him at 5pm? Isn't this a bit late for him to digest his food properly? (someone with more experience will be able to help with this). I wish you luck with your little guy. I hope you can stop the mbd getting any worse and he regains the use of his tongue. You will receive some excellent advise from the members of this forum.
 

camimom

New Member
Can you post photos of him from the side please?

The uvb bulb definitely needs to be replaced.

ANy chance you can take him outside?

How long has he had no calcium no d3 powder?

What are you gutloading your bugs with?
 

Lewis321

New Member
I think you might need to update your uvb light and make sure you dust the feeders with plain calcium (when it arrives) on every feeding. Also why do you feed him at 5pm? Isn't this a bit late for him to digest his food properly? (someone with more experience will be able to help with this). I wish you luck with your little guy. I hope you can stop the mbd getting any worse and he regains the use of his tongue. You will receive some excellent advise from the members of this forum.

Ok I will feed him on a morning , thank you for your support
 

Lewis321

New Member
Can you post photos of him from the side please?

The uvb bulb definitely needs to be replaced.

ANy chance you can take him outside?

How long has he had no calcium no d3 powder?

What are you gutloading your bugs with?

Ok I will buy a new one , yeah I suppose I could take him outside when it's good weather , he has never had plain calcium without d3 they are guy loaded with fruit and veg
 

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Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
From the photos I would consider his condition severe, he has pretty serious bone deformities in pretty much every bone. I would definitely take him to an experienced reptile vet, who can help you get his blood calcium levels where they need to be (probably through calcium injections), then supplement with plain calcium everything he eats, get the new UVB bulb, and take him outside as often as you can when the whether permits.

If he is tripping, falling, or loosing his balance I would also recommend that you modify the cage so he can't fall. Because in the state of his bones right now, even a really silly little fall will crack limbs and ribs. Either flipping his cage so it's horizontal, or adding a catch net under his basking branches will be good.

If you've always only used calcium with D3, especially if it's a supplement with a lot of it, too much of this vitamin with interfere with how well the body absorbs and utilizes calcium. So you could have been dusting everything, but his body can't use the calcium. And too much D3 will start calcifying the tissues, so it's not a good situation. That's why I recommend a vet, so he can do bloodwork.
 
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