XxSepiorxX
Member
Hey, just because I'm 9 doesn't mean I always have to listen to people online.
MBD, please help!!!!!!
- Thread starter XxSepiorxX
- Start date
XxSepiorxX
Member
Google is not always the answer @VeiledMathis.
Please keep posts about the topic and be respectful towards forum members.
Nursemaia
Chameleon Enthusiast
Sometimes adults don't know how to talk to those younger than us and no one likes to be told what to do. It doesn't feel good when you get bossed around. I also know that anything you need to do with your cham, like going to the vet, has to get the ok from your parents first. We had another young man on here recently who had parents that were not supporting him in taking care of his cham so parents can make things hard, even if they don't mean to be difficult.
I bet it felt good when the vet said he didn't have MBD. It was a relief to hear he was going to be ok because it hurts to think about a pet we love being sick. Sometimes adults, even doctors, nurses and veterinarians make mistakes. That is why we are all telling you to get a second opinion. We all have a lot of experience here and have seen MBD over and over again. Your cham is showing symptoms of it. The crooked casque and legs, and broken leg are all signs. It's great he is still climbing and has a strong grip, that means it's not as bad as it could be. We all want what's best for you and your cham and remember if you added up everyone's years of experience it would probably be over a 1000 years and we share what we know with each other. We really do know what we're talking about.
WAMBO
Chameleon Enthusiast
Community Rules
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XxSepiorxX
Member
VeiledMathis
Member
I apologize to all members for getting out of hand, I see my mistake and will be respectful towards others.
Chameleomom
Chameleon Enthusiast
I have to wonder why you didn't post about the broken leg in this post .Several people had to pump that out of you. Maybe it's just me thinking things don't add up
- We went to the vet... He has no MBD!!!! Just need to fix heat and feeding!!!!
I have no patience for the drama this thread has seen but here is my professional opinion on the chameleon as a veterinarian.
I've looked at the pictures posted in this thread and the other. The casque is crooked, the mouth is slightly malaligned, and the right elbow looks abnormal in that it has a curved shape. All of these and especially the curved shape of the elbow are indicative of MBD, however it could be old and in the recovery stage. But in most cases bending indicates currently weakened bone and a pathological fracture. The single most common reason by nearly 100% in reptiles is metabolic bone disease (nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism) with bending like that. If supplementation and UVB exposure is adequate then it could be healing but you don't know without doing diagnostic testing like X-rays to look at bone density or bloodwork to examine the calcium to phosphorus ratio.
I applaud you for taking him to the vet. Unfortunately many vets have very limited training or experience with reptiles, and even those that do see them still may not necessarily know what to look for in more subtle situations. I have met many vets in this category. It is not for lack of caring, simply lack of adequate experience with animals that differ so much from cats and dogs. Even though you rely on medical professionals to be experts it is not always so easy. The fact that the vet said it was "slightly fractured" is concerning. Either it is fractured or it is not. And if it is fractured at all then that is problematic and needs to be investigated. If it is fractured due to trauma then it needs to be splinted. But if not then it's because metabolic bone disease is present in which case no splint is used. Since no diagnostics were done then MBD cannot be ruled out. And there are physical findings enough to support the diagnosis. So it is faulty to simply say that it's not present if nothing was done to disprove the evidence that it is. Your chameleon has several areas with evidence of MBD unfortunately. Until diagnostics are done it is foolish to think otherwise and will delay treatment and allow the disease to progress.
Even if he doesn't have MBD the extra calcium is not harmful. Please treat him with additional calcium and use a fresh UVB bulb or natural sunlight regardless. It won't hurt, and it will probably help. Please see the resource on MBD for more information.
I've looked at the pictures posted in this thread and the other. The casque is crooked, the mouth is slightly malaligned, and the right elbow looks abnormal in that it has a curved shape. All of these and especially the curved shape of the elbow are indicative of MBD, however it could be old and in the recovery stage. But in most cases bending indicates currently weakened bone and a pathological fracture. The single most common reason by nearly 100% in reptiles is metabolic bone disease (nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism) with bending like that. If supplementation and UVB exposure is adequate then it could be healing but you don't know without doing diagnostic testing like X-rays to look at bone density or bloodwork to examine the calcium to phosphorus ratio.
I applaud you for taking him to the vet. Unfortunately many vets have very limited training or experience with reptiles, and even those that do see them still may not necessarily know what to look for in more subtle situations. I have met many vets in this category. It is not for lack of caring, simply lack of adequate experience with animals that differ so much from cats and dogs. Even though you rely on medical professionals to be experts it is not always so easy. The fact that the vet said it was "slightly fractured" is concerning. Either it is fractured or it is not. And if it is fractured at all then that is problematic and needs to be investigated. If it is fractured due to trauma then it needs to be splinted. But if not then it's because metabolic bone disease is present in which case no splint is used. Since no diagnostics were done then MBD cannot be ruled out. And there are physical findings enough to support the diagnosis. So it is faulty to simply say that it's not present if nothing was done to disprove the evidence that it is. Your chameleon has several areas with evidence of MBD unfortunately. Until diagnostics are done it is foolish to think otherwise and will delay treatment and allow the disease to progress.
Even if he doesn't have MBD the extra calcium is not harmful. Please treat him with additional calcium and use a fresh UVB bulb or natural sunlight regardless. It won't hurt, and it will probably help. Please see the resource on MBD for more information.
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XxSepiorxX
Member
He broke is leg on a trip, in his travel cage. He fell and bumped around. I couldn't see what happened because it was dark. I only heard some weird sounds.
XxSepiorxX
Member
Virgil1972
Avid Member
He does not look in good shape. His casque is crooked, his spine looks curved, and in the third pic his front arm looks curved. If you squeeze his bottom jaw does it feel squishy or bend in any way?
XxSepiorxX
Member
It can't bend
If it is broken from trauma then the extra calcium will help it heal faster and stronger especially since no splint was placed. Fresh UVB and natural sunlight will help his body to absorb the extra calcium it needs to repair a fracture regardless of cause.
WAMBO
Chameleon Enthusiast
Those sure do look like insufficiency fractures that one would see in MBD. The free advice from the good doctor would be a great idea to follow:
.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Healthy chameleons in the wild, particularly small individuals like this, regularly jump or fall from trees many meters above the ground to escape predators without breaking bones. If your chameleon fractured its limb in its travel cage and you didn't punt kick the cage to cause it, it almost assuredly has low bone calcium issues. This is supported by the visibly deformed spine, limbs, casque, jaw, etc., that are evident in the photos you have posted. As @ferretinmyshoes, who is a highly qualified reptile vet, said in her post above, unless your vet performed X-rays and blood tests to diagnostically rule MBD out, they did not perform the necessary tests that would be required to be able to say that this animal does not have it given the extensive external symptoms shown.
Chris
PS. Everyone should please only use the post reporting feature when you suspect a specific forum rule has been violated. The Report function is not a tool to swamp us with reports in the hopes of us censoring people because someone disagrees with you. There is also no excuse for copping an attitude with us in said reports.
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
You send me a PM asking me to help you before you ever posted on the forums so you must have trusted me to give you some good advise? I love veileds. I have 5 of my own. I would do anything in my power to keep my pets healthy and happy. It makes me sad to see chameleons here that are sick or hurt. I spend many hours on the forums trying to help new keepers to help their chameleons. I would never steer anyone in the wrong direction. If I'm not sure about something I ask our resident vet health questions. She is good with chameleons and has been keeping chameleons for years. I respect her advise and often even ask her questions about my own pets just as another opinion on what's going on with my guys. I think you should take her advise very seriously. She would not steer you wrong. If I were in your situation I would at least get my guy as much outside time as possible in a screen enclosure in the shade. They get tons of natural UV even in the shade. Don't cook him in the sun. I would also get some calcium without D3 to dust his feeders with at every feeding for this next month. I recommend Rep-cal calcium. I have two little runt boys Amos and Andy that had MBD before I got them. I'm giving you a couple of links to pictures of my veileds so you can see what they all look like. If you look closely at Amos and Andy you can see the curved legs. I'm also giving you a link for how I recommend you keep veileds. I'm hoping for the best for you and your boy.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/my-beautiful-veileds.142194/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/photos-of-my-beautiful-veileds.151897/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/my-beautiful-veileds.142194/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/photos-of-my-beautiful-veileds.151897/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-with-young-veiled-or-panther-chameleons.325/
XxSepiorxX
Member
WAMBO
Chameleon Enthusiast
. As they stated, your cham may have had MBD in the past that caused these fractures, or you bought him with MBD and he still has it. Either way, it would be a good idea to treat him for MBD as the doctors stated, since it is not going to harm your cham. also as stated above, it does not require much trauma to break a bone when MBD is present, and the fracture from his carrying cage sounds suspicious enough to give another reason to treat him now. You have nothing to lose by treating him, and everything to gain. Good luck. I'm confident that you can do it!
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