MBD? Overdose on D3? Urgent help

[Mariahtbear]

Hello. I have a 7 month old veiled Chameleon. I have been dusting her crickets with what I thought was enough calcium and I think her arms are starting to have a rounded appearance. I have just realized that The calcium I have been giving her is always been with D3. I have been reading the last couple days that it is bad to only supplement with D3 so I am going to get just calcium right now. My question is that will she get better if I start giving her calcium without D3 and only D3 a couple times a month? Also can anyone please give me a good supplement schedual to give her including multivitamins thanks! I don't know how to attach a picture sorry.

 

[ReptileLove18]

Welcome to the forum!

the best supplementing schedule for veileds is calcium without d3 or phosphorous at every feeding, a multivitamin twice a month, and calcium with d3 twice a month.

if you could post some pictures of her and whats going on, we will be able to help more!

also, please copy and paste this form into your reply, filling in your answers. this helps other members help you and correct any husbandry issues https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[Mariahtbear]

ALL MY INFO HERE
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female, Around 7 months. It ha sbeen in my care since she was about 3 months
Handling - I only handle my chameleon when cleaning her cage
Feeding - I feed her crickets on a daily basis, some meal worms or silk worms as a treat. I feed the crickets carrots.
Supplements - Calcium D3, switching to just calcium. and a multivitamine
Watering - I use a dripper every other day and mist her 2 times/day
Fecal Description - BBlack and white, she goes once a day
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage, Big enough for juvenile
Lighting - on 12 hours, off 12 hours. She has a uv light and halogen heating light.
Temperature - Basking is 75-80.
Humidity - I honestly dont know how to measure humidity.
Plants - a ficus
Placement - She is hung up in the air in the corner of my dining room
Location - Ontario, Canada

Current Problem - Rounded joints and over dosing her on D3

I still dont know how to attach a picture, sorry

 

[KingJulian]

Welcome to the forum! Just a few things I noticed to try and help you out, humidity is one of the best things for them. I would recommend buying a humidity gauge. They are under 10 dollars and sold at almost any pet store, you can hang it right in the cage so you can always see how the humidity is. I try to keep mine between 40-60, sometimes i keep it higher. (I have a panther chameleon, so just double check what a good level is for veileds) Also, I usually mist my cham at least 4 times a day. They don't drink standing water, so their only water source is from us misting the cage down. And your temps seem to be a little low. The basking spot should be around 85 degrees, and then it drops at the lower levels. Hope some of this info helps

 

[Mariahtbear]

Thanks for the info! And she's still a juvenile so I keep the temps 75-80

 

[ReptileLove18]

ALL MY INFO HERE
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Female, Around 7 months. It ha sbeen in my care since she was about 3 months
Handling - I only handle my chameleon when cleaning her cage
Feeding - I feed her crickets on a daily basis, some meal worms or silk worms as a treat. I feed the crickets carrots.
Supplements - Calcium D3, switching to just calcium. and a multivitamine
Watering - I use a dripper every other day and mist her 2 times/day
Fecal Description - BBlack and white, she goes once a day
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage, Big enough for juvenile
Lighting - on 12 hours, off 12 hours. She has a uv light and halogen heating light.
Temperature - Basking is 75-80.
Humidity - I honestly dont know how to measure humidity.
Plants - a ficus
Placement - She is hung up in the air in the corner of my dining room
Location - Ontario, Canada

Current Problem - Rounded joints and over dosing her on D3

I still dont know how to attach a picture, sorry

to upload a photo, when you click reply on this thread, click go advanced and then scroll down to where it says manage attachments, click it. you should be able to then upload some photos and they will be put into the message automatically!

as for your husbandry, there are some things to be adjusted

carrots is not a great gutload for your feeders, its a good start but more things need to be added in to give your cham the most nutrition possible. this blog has a easy to do and very nutritious gutload recipe! https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

i would mist more like 3-4 times a day to keep the humidity nice. ideallly for veileds it should be between 50-70 percent, spiking to around 70 when misting. make sure you allow the cage to dry out for an hour or so before mising again as you dont want a bunch of water collecting at the bottom of the cage. as said, getting a hygrometer at a petstore is the best way to measure humidity and its important to know what it is. also, i would run the dripper every day so that she has plenty of opportunities to drink just shut it off a hour or so before bedtime!

the temps in the cage for her age should be 75- 80 (22-26 C) ambient temp and 85 (29C) basking.

there is lots of accurate info on veiled care on this caresheet, https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

and good feeder ideas and how much they can make of your chameleons diet also! https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html

hope this helps some!! we should be able to help more with the odd looking limbs once you get some pics up it took me awhile to figure out how to do it when i first started.

 

[pssh]

What brand of calcium with D3 are you using and how much D3 is in it? (The amount of D3 that is in it is usually presented on the container as something similar to this: 123,456 iu per kg.) Some brands are okay to use more often than others (some can be used nearly daily while others shouldn't be used more than 1-2 times a month.)

 

[Mariahtbear]

Thank you Reptilelove18, i really appreciate the help. I have attached photos. They are by far the best pictures I have got of her poor little elbows. I feel horrible I let this happen I just really want to try to fix it.

I have been doing alot of research today and I think i may have been over supplementing her with the D3. maybe I just add too much powder to her food. I am going to try to add less on her feedings. I just went out to a reptile shop and got reptivide with d3 that I will only use a slight amount once a week and just plain calcium I will use 3 times a week. If you could, since you seem to know what your talking about, please tell me the regimend you use for your chameleon that works best and hopefully I can add it to mine.

I am going to get a humidity monitor this weekend after our move and I am planning to up the size of her cage because she is growing.

AGAIN, i really appreciate your help. Funny how attached we can gt to these cute little things.

 

[Mariahtbear]

What brand of calcium with D3 are you using and how much D3 is in it? (The amount of D3 that is in it is usually presented on the container as something similar to this: 123,456 iu per kg.) Some brands are okay to use more often than others (some can be used nearly daily while others shouldn't be used more than 1-2 times a month.)

The reptivite I have bought today has 10,390 IU/ Lb or 22,907 IU/ kg. Please tell me how much is appropriate to give to her with this. It also has a bunch of other recommended vitamines from the store in this supplement

 

[Tay And A]

Could you post pictures with the cage door open? It's hard to see your Cham.

 

[Mariahtbear]

Could you post pictures with the cage door open? It's hard to see your Cham.

I tried very hard to get a picture inside but it really stresses her out to put anything that is not food or my hand inside her cage. i dont want to stress her out more in her fragile state. However, if you look in the pictures I postes, you can see her arm very clear and see how rounded it is.

 

[pssh]

That is the supplement you have been giving her every day? A multivitamin should only be given 1-2 times a month regardless of how much D3 is in it.

EDIT: also, you need to take her to a vet and have them determine what to do to help her. She will probably need calcium shots and then once her blood levels of calcium are high enough, they can give her a shot of calcitonin to quickly draw the calcium into the bones. She will always have arms like this, but with proper care and vet assistance, she can live a relatively normal life as long as you address the problem immediately.

 

[Mariahtbear]

That is the supplement you have been giving her every day? A multivitamin should only be given 1-2 times a month regardless of how much D3 is in it.

EDIT: also, you need to take her to a vet and have them determine what to do to help her. She will probably need calcium shots and then once her blood levels of calcium are high enough, they can give her a shot of calcitonin to quickly draw the calcium into the bones. She will always have arms like this, but with proper care and vet assistance, she can live a relatively normal life as long as you address the problem immediately.

No that is the supplement I have just bought her today to give to her once a week. I cannot get her into a vet right at the moment. So I am trying to do what I can do help her

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!
I can see that you care very much about your chameleon.
Sorry your cham is having troubles but at least you have now found a forum where you can get reliable cham info.
Some people here have many years of experience with chams and others are just getting started--so it's a somewhat diverse group.
Too often, people get incorrect info from petstore employees who don't know the right care info.
It has happened to many of us, if not to most of us.


Aside from daily calcium without D3 and misting more often, I do see another thing in her care that should be changed to help get her back to good health.
Her basking temperature is too cold.
It should be closer to 85 degrees for a young Veiled chameleon.
MBD can be caused by too low basking temperatures, a lack of uvb, as well as improper supplementing or the lack of a nutritious, varied diet.

You don't want to give her the Reptivite multivitamins more than 2x a month.
Chams need certain amounts of both D3 and the other vitamins and too much is as bad as too little is.

Calcium without any D3 or phosphorus, like this one http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...um-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-calcium-without-d3/
can be used to dust each feeding.
Feeding a variety of insects, which are themselves well fed, will help to ensure a balanced, nutritious diet for your cham.
Slikworms, Dubias, Hornworms, Phoenixworms, blue bottle flies and superworms can all be added to her diet.
Silkworms, hornworms and Phoenixworms are typically higher in calcium than the other feeders are.
Phoenixworms are said to be the highest in calcium.


Here is a wonderful writeup by a veterinarian, about MBD with some very valuable info, including how you can help your cham:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
You will read about what things you can do to help her, such as 1 drop of liquid calcium 2x a day.

Of course, treatment by a vet with a good knowledge of reptile care is ideal.


This Veiled caresheet was written by the forum moderators and has reliable care info for your Veiled:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

You probably were not told that the UVB bulb will need to be replaced every 6 months because the bulb will still light up just fine--but it won't be emitting enough UVB for youe cham after about 6 months of use.

 

[Mariahtbear]

Welcome to the forum!
I can see that you care very much about your chameleon.
Sorry your cham is having troubles but at least you have now found a forum where you can get reliable cham info.
Some people here have many years of experience with chams and others are just getting started--so it's a somewhat diverse group.
Too often, people get incorrect info from petstore employees who don't know the right care info.
It has happened to many of us, if not to most of us.


Aside from daily calcium without D3 and misting more often, I do see another thing in her care that should be changed to help get her back to good health.
Her basking temperature is too cold.
It should be closer to 85 degrees for a young Veiled chameleon.
MBD can be caused by too low basking temperatures, a lack of uvb, as well as improper supplementing or the lack of a nutritious, varied diet.

You don't want to give her the Reptivite multivitamins more than 2x a month.
Chams need certain amounts of both D3 and the other vitamins and too much is as bad as too little is.

Calcium without any D3 or phosphorus, like this one http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...um-and-vitamins/-/rep-cal-calcium-without-d3/
can be used to dust each feeding.
Feeding a variety of insects, which are themselves well fed, will help to ensure a balanced, nutritious diet for your cham.
Slikworms, Dubias, Hornworms, Phoenixworms, blue bottle flies and superworms can all be added to her diet.
Silkworms, hornworms and Phoenixworms are typically higher in calcium than the other feeders are.
Phoenixworms are said to be the highest in calcium.


Here is a wonderful writeup by a veterinarian, about MBD with some very valuable info, including how you can help your cham:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
You will read about what things you can do to help her, such as 1 drop of liquid calcium 2x a day.

Of course, treatment by a vet with a good knowledge of reptile care is ideal.


This Veiled caresheet was written by the forum moderators and has reliable care info for your Veiled:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

You probably were not told that the UVB bulb will need to be replaced every 6 months because the bulb will still light up just fine--but it won't be emitting enough UVB for youe cham after about 6 months of use.

I can't tell you thank you enough. You've really given me a better outlook. I'm going to take the vets advice and give her calcium with no D3 twice daily for a month. Just one last question, do you recommend me giving the reptivite with D3 only twice a month and add D3 somewhere else in the diet or should I just stick with reptivite twice a month?

 

[pssh]

I would add another calcium with D3 a few more times a month (it depends on the brand.) When you get another brand, let us know which one it is and how much D3. I would suggest not getting repcal brand though because it has very high levels and you are using a multivitamin that also has D3.

 

[Lovereps]

I can't tell you thank you enough. You've really given me a better outlook. I'm going to take the vets advice and give her calcium with no D3 twice daily for a month. Just one last question, do you recommend me giving the reptivite with D3 only twice a month and add D3 somewhere else in the diet or should I just stick with reptivite twice a month?

You're very welcome.
The recommendation is typically D3 only 2x a month. Since the Reptivite has that, contains calcium and contains multiple vitamins, I would give it 2x a month after a 2 week break.
Chameleon nutrition is an inexact science at this point but the daily calcium, 2x a month D3, 2x a month multivitamin schedule typically works for many chams--except for montane chams like Jackson's who need only 1/2 of each of these.
Here is another reliable caresheet with nutriton and feeder info:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

 

[Lovereps]

I forgot to add that natural sunlight, when the weather allows it, is great for chams.
Chams actually make their own D3 when exposed to natural sunlight.
Natural sunlight does not include sunlight that passes through glass or many plastics--as these actually filter out the UVB light.