Locales

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Why is furcifer pardalis the only species with locales? Are they?

This question popped into my head as I was perusing Dale Tamarad ig page and some of the females looked a little different but I think one was WC. I AM assuming furcifer pardalis is heartier and do cold have spread to other regions? Does furcifer pardalis have the biggest range of the species?
 

snitz427

Chameleon Enthusiast
I think I read somewhere that, at least for a few locales, there were geological and natural barriers that prevented certain locales from traveling... so eventually the coloration was a result of limited genetics. Like Ambanja, for instance... i think that was a locale that was somewhat isolated due to a river along its perimeter.

I have no idea how accurate that is, but its rhe only explanation Ive read about.
 

KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
Why is furcifer pardalis the only species with locales? Are they?

This question popped into my head as I was perusing Dale Tamarad ig page and some of the females looked a little different but I think one was WC. I AM assuming furcifer pardalis is heartier and do cold have spread to other regions? Does furcifer pardalis have the biggest range of the species?
This was actually just talked about on the podcast about parsons. The only reason being there hasnt been enough studies done to show specific localization differences. He said theyre close, but not quite there. Eventually if we find that certain parsons that are the same species have small differences based on location, we will eventually have locals.
 

KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
I think I read somewhere that, at least for a few locales, there were geological and natural barriers that prevented certain locales from traveling... so eventually the coloration was a result of limited genetics. Like Ambanja, for instance... i think that was a locale that was somewhat isolated due to a river along its perimeter.

I have no idea how accurate that is, but its rhe only explanation Ive read about.
The studies done that you can find talked about on netflix or amazon go over this a bit. Basically exactly what you said, the separation caused them to evolve their own colors within small localized communities. They stayed the same species, but had their own colorations. Basically imbreeding created genetic coloration limitations.
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
The studies done that you can find talked about on netflix or amazon go over this a bit. Basically exactly what you said, the separation caused them to evolve their own colors within small localized communities. They stayed the same species, but had their own colorations. Basically imbreeding created genetic coloration limitations.
Yes this is how all sub species occur--however I dont see how this would been relegated to furcifer pardalis--but I now see it's a lack of data--not variety in other species.
 

KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
Why is furcifer pardalis the only species with locales? Are they?

This question popped into my head as I was perusing Dale Tamarad ig page and some of the females looked a little different but I think one was WC. I AM assuming furcifer pardalis is heartier and do cold have spread to other regions? Does furcifer pardalis have the biggest range of the species?
As if it was meant to be, the next Podcast episode just came out about the Calumma parsonii cristifer, and they litterally talk about this.
 
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CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Someone somewhere wants to make each locale of Furcifer Pardalis a different sub-species a short while back. He/she claimed there was enough genetic differences between the localities. I however disagree and believe that anything that can breed>produce offspring>and that offspring can produce is the same species in my eyes. Also some locales are grouped when they should not be. Some people say for instance that all Ankify are Ambanja but no Ambanjas are Ankify. Which doesn't make any lick of sense to me. Especially sense Ankify is an island off the coast of Ambanja. I'm fully aware chameleons can float/swim yet I don't think that's a swim any chameleon would live through.

Slightly off topic but I do know of a few hybrid New Caledonian geckos. If these were produced in captivity or in the wild I'm unsure. I'm also unsure if these true hybrids can even reproduce whether in 1 species or the other or both or only with other hybrids.
 
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KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
Someone somewhere wants to make each locale of Furcifer Pardalis a different sub-species a short while back. He/she claimed there was enough genetic differences between the localities. I however disagree and believe that anything that can breed>produce offspring>and that offspring can produce is the same species in my eyes. Also some locales are grouped when they should not be. Some people say for instance that all Ankify are Ambanja but no Ambanjas are Ankify. Which doesn't make any lick of sense to me. Especially sense Ankify is an island off the coast of Ambanja. I'm fully aware chameleons can float/swim yet I don't think that's a swim any chameleon would live through.

Slightly off topic but I do know of a few hybrid New Caledonian geckos. If these were produced in captivity or in the wild I'm unsure. I'm also unsure if these true hybrids can even reproduce whether in 1 species or the other or both or only with other hybrids.
Agreed. I feel this way even within the ambilobe local. A lot of surrounding areas are lumped into the ambilobe local when they have significantly different colorations. Kammerflage Kreations has done a lot of breeding specific colors to get what theyre looking for. But say a color combo comes into the U.S. as an "ambilobe" even though its from Antsohimbondrona (just an example). It could very well have a genetic difference but becuase it has a white body, yellow and red bar, with out any gentic greens or blues, in all likelyhood would still be called an ambilobe and be used for a red body project. Not saying this is the case for kammerflage kreations, just that this could easily be the case for all locals. Ever noticed how many varying colors you get with sambava? Some dont even have the abikity to display orange, a distinct sambava color. I think there are a lot more locals than we think due to lack of studies. Some locals may not even be able to be associated with a town name or area becuase there may be to many locals in the same area. All you need is some form of long term isolation, this can happen within a single square mile of each other. One species on two sides of a river 200 feet away could very easily be two seperate locals.
 
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