Locale certainty

[ciafardo 4]

I always see people post pics of their panthers and someone always wants to dispute the locale because the animal doesn't have the typical coloring. That has me thinking unless you actually went to a specific area and collected the animal yourself your always going to have to take someones word for it.I wonder how many of these animals are actual crosses? Anyone have any input on this?

 

[ColorCham427]

Look at pictures of Panthers that were actually taken in the wild.

Google Furcifer Pardalis... look up panthers in Asia, UK too. Compare.

Look at breeder's breeders and continue to google pictures of specific locales.

eventually you'll develope a good eye.

I have noticed a lot of different looking Ambanjas in these past several months.

I was used to seeing Ambanjas with that dull coloring except for their barring.

Most Ambanjas look to me that their beautiful colors are usually in their barring. I had a "typical" Ambanja, his colors weren't all too impressive... but the red dots in his barring looked painted! his barring was insanely eye catching. the rest of his body wasn't all too shiney.

most pictures i've seen of Ambanjas, their really bright looking colors are in their barring.

when i got into this hobby, i noticed the blue on blue Ambanjas. which were really aqua and turqoise... and now some have the crazy blue on blues... literally identical to the "true blue" Nosy Be blues, only they have beautiful barring.

some Ambanjas now have very strong blue bodies with purple barring. i dont care if it is a cross or not! that specimen is a jaw dropper and you're one lucky sob to own that animal!!!

Ambanjas seem to have a lot of similar looking locales around them? or is it just me?

Red barred Ambanjas...blue diamond studs( show lots of white), blue on blues, purple bars, blue and red barred that only appear purple when looked at from a distance...etc.

maybe these exporters are shipping WC males and females, and even gravid females that were "close enough" to the requested location?

There is one breeder that has a couple Sambava beauties that just don't look anything like the other Sambava breeders. they dont look like any Sambava pictures i have googled, seen on well known breeder web sites, not even did i find any in albums on here that can compare in any way to these two Sambavas...

One looks more like a Nosy Mitsio... seriously... really looks like a sexy Nosy Mitsio!

and the star Sambava breeder looks like a cross. and it actually looks like one of their panther cross morphs that they display as a cross/breeder.

i trust everybody on here who have good repuations.

i personally, wouldnt buy any panther from a line that doesnt look "typically clean"


I have also seen ambilobeXnosy be crosses that came out looking like one of them sexy red bodied blue barred Ambilobes.

these were labeled as crosses too.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

Very interesting topic.

As much as I realize , that not all locale pure panthers will display typical attributes, often a cross can be glaringly obvious.

I have recently grown out a male CB Ambilobe that I acquired from an out of country source, only to find , it doesn't look quite right , so it will never be used in any of my projects. It will be sold as a pet Panther , with no claim to pure locale.

The base colouration , is just too reminiscent of an Ambanja or Nosy Be and the casque is too round , as opposed to thinner head with pointed casque. Body base colour and barring look like a cross. And the chams size is far to large for an Ambilobe.

It may very well be a 100% pure Ambilobe, but it is suspect and the source has always produced , in my opinion , very questionable Panther locales. They constantly managed to produced Panthers that stray from typically expected attributes , such as colour, size , barring and casque shape.

I am also sitting on a clutch of CH Ambilobes from a WC female that arrived gravid. Again , it will take several more months to be comfortable with the resulting chams , as they mature and show their attributes. Luckily , at 4 months of age , they are already displaying correct Ambilobe attributes, ( colour, casque shape, barring shape and colour), as is expected.

Unfortunately , there are a few breeders that feel , that if they were "stiffed" with a cross or mislabeled WC, they are then entitled to pass that on and still claim pure locales. I guess it boils down to the " greater sucker theory".

Also can be a function of selling the offspring before any conformation can be determined from the maturing offspring. This still produces the same problem, but from a far less malicious intent.

 

[Fidel]

The problem is that you have no idea what kind of shenanigans have gone on during importation with WC females. Not only do you run the risk of them being misidentified by the importer, but if they are gravid then any of the other locales held with her before and after shipment could be the sire. Essentially what we have here in captivity are "locale-types", strong assumptions can be made, but no one is for sure.

 

[Kent67]

lo·cale (lō-kāl')
n.
1. A place, especially with reference to a particular event: the locale of a crime.

2. The scene or setting, as of a novel.

Synonyms:
1. location, site, spot.


Using the word "locale" is a misnomer in the first place. When someone says they have a "pure" Ambanja locale it literally means that it came from within the town of Ambanja. How many animals do you think came from within Ambanja versus the general area around said town? Locale-types or regional color forms/morphs is far more appropriate.

 

[Fidel]

lo·cale (lō-kāl')
n.
1. A place, especially with reference to a particular event: the locale of a crime.
.

Seems especially relevant in this case

 

[ciafardo 4]

lo·cale (lō-kāl')
n.
1. A place, especially with reference to a particular event: the locale of a crime.

2. The scene or setting, as of a novel.

Synonyms:
1. location, site, spot.


Using the word "locale" is a misnomer in the first place. When someone says they have a "pure" Ambanja locale it literally means that it came from within the town of Ambanja. How many animals do you think came from within Ambanja versus the general area around said town? Locale-types or regional color forms/morphs is far more appropriate.

Maybe Websters could add a definition ????????