little tigris

[ericguru]

Here are the "little tigris" (Calumma tigris) that I took to Hamm, 5 baby 5 different bloodlines.

four animals are alright, but one, the youngest doesn't use the rear legs, he uses only the front to "walk" and drag the rear ones. The clamps of the rear legs remain closed.
hypothesis paralysis, probably evoked through a slump during transport in Italy.

 

[Chuck G]

Very nice! Too bad about the one. This species is number one on my wish list.
Good luck with them.

 

[ColorCham427]

awww man i feel so sorry about that one little guy... hmmm... these pictures are making me drool... is this normal????

 

[luevelvet]

They really are a sight to behold. It's a shame about the one.

Good luck and keep us posted. I for one would be very interested in the progress of this project.

Thanks for sharing,

Luis

 

[Chris Anderson]

Absolutely beautiful. Sorry to hear about the one but the rest look awesome!

Chris

 

[ericguru]

Thanks for the compliments, I will keep you updated

 

[laurie]

What a beautiful, healthy looking group. Sorry you have one of them with a problem. Good luck with them.

 

[Trace]

This species has not been legally exported from Madagascar since 1995 and I find it hard to believe that these particular animals are true descendants of those last legal specimens/shipments. I cannot and will not support the trade of illegal animals and the people who, perhaps unwittingly, own them.

 

[Chris Anderson]

This species has not been legally exported from Madagascar since 1995 and I find it hard to believe that these particular animals are true descendants of those last legal specimens/shipments. I cannot and will not support the trade of illegal animals and the people who, perhaps unwittingly, own them.

Trace,

This species is not from Madagascar. They are from the Seychelles. CITES has never recommended banning export of chameleons from the Seychelles as far as I know. I don't know the history of the Seychelles as far as their regulations for exporting their animals but C. tigris is not subject to the 1995 ban.

Chris

 

[eisentrauti]

But those specimens are with guarantee CB ones. The breeder of them has much success with this species and so I don't see any moral problems

 

[Trace]

Trace,

This species is not from Madagascar. They are from the Seychelles. CITES has never recommended banning export of chameleons from the Seychelles as far as I know. I don't know the history of the Seychelles as far as their regulations for exporting their animals but C. tigris is not subject to the 1995 ban.

Chris

I stand corrected but I can not find export quotas for this species so I question how they got into captivity and if they can be legally exported how come we have not seen more in the hobby over the years?

You guys may still be fine with keeping or wanting these 'rarer' high profile species but I am not anymore.

 

[eisentrauti]

I'm not interested in them, I prefer cheaper tempelis But anyway, the guy from whom they are breeds them in high numbers, every year. I don't know how he gets them but from my point of view it's absolutely ok to keep them.
They are real CB ones.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I stand corrected but I can not find export quotas for this species so I question how they got into captivity and if they can be legally exported how come we have not seen more in the hobby over the years?

You guys may still be fine with keeping or wanting these 'rarer' high profile species but I am not anymore.

Trace,

Not all countries use the CITES export quota system. Many set their own internal quotas. Uganda and Equatorial Guinea are two examples of CITES party countries that have elephant and leopard quotas through CITES but do not use CITES for their reptile quotas. These countries still are legally exporting their chameleons under their own legal system but in full accord with CITES. CITES does not require that quotas be issued, simply that any exported animal has a CITES document if that species is listed.

As I said, I am not familiar with the export system in the Seychelles but it is possible that they have only let a few out a couple times much like South Africa with their Bradypodion, Namibia with Ch. namaquensis, Ethiopia with T. affinis, etc. Each of these countries has legally allowed their chameleons to be exported but it has been rare. The Seychelles may be the same and these animals may be completely legal.

As far as morality goes with wanting or keeping some of these rarer species, we are all welcome to our own opinions. I know a lot of people who think owning animals at all is horrible. For me, if it is CB or was brought into the country with CITES documents that were cleared and accepted by the appropriate authorities, I'm not going to argue with it because they are legal animals. I personally think some of the exportation rates are too high and need to be managed better but until that happens, I prefer to see those animals go into hands of people who are informed about how to care for them rather then refuse to support anyone who wants or keeps them.

Chris

 

[Kent67]

Wow! More Ch. dilepis get exported from Africa EACH year than C. tigris exist on the whole planet!

"Its population was estimated at 2,055 ± 620 animals in 2005 (Gerlach in prep). "

Sounds like the other two populations may not be protected from collection.

"It is present in the Morne Seychelles and Praslin National Parks. Forested areas where the main population occurs on Silhouette island should receive legal protection. "

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/61425/0

 

[ericguru]

It may seem strange, but these animals are the siblings of some ones imported more than a decade ago for scientific scopes. Many localities of this specie exist, mine are from Mahè. The Silhouette locality wasn't imported that time so the ones available now are illegally imported (afaik). In captivity these kind of animals are very prolific, so I think that the limited availability is due to the distruction of their habitat. I'm very excited about this project and I hope to get good results.

 

[AJA]

So are these allowed in the US through legal means?

 

[eisentrauti]

If sb from Europe exports Cb ones; yes !

 

[luevelvet]

From what I've researched, C. tigris is the only species that lays their eggs in a similar fashion to that of Uroplatus lineatus where they deposit the eggs inside of pineapple plant crevices very much resembling Dracaena fragratissima 'Massangeana'.

Hows that last one holding up, if at all?

Luis

 

[Damaranum]

Hi Luis,

You're right it is indeed discribed by M. van Heygen.

Other articles state they lay their eggs in soil as well in captivity.

Steven

 

[luevelvet]

Hey Steven,

Thanks for the extra info. I did read about them depositing eggs in shallow holes and under leaf litter. They seem to behave much like a pygmy. Fascinating...

Luis