Lethargy, grumpier than usual, not very hungry, HELP

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, M, approx 8-11 mo. In my care for around 7-8 months.
Handling - I've handled him a total of four times throughout his entire life.
Feeding - Feeding a mix of (old breeder) zophobas beetles, dubias, superworms, crickets, and 1-2 katydid monthly. Usually eats around 15 bugs a day depending on size and type. Feed in the morning around 3 bugs, then in the afternoon the rest, usually around 11. Crickets are gutloaded with the crappy flukers powder and the water cubes (they are used least often and are my least favorite).. Dubias, zophobas beetles, zophobas worms (superworms) have fresh zucchini, sometimes oranges, apples, carrots, water cubes, tiny tiny sprinkle of cricket food on top of the mix of whatever I can find. Sometimes a tiny bit of spinnach or lettuce for water.
Supplements - BOTH reptical with d3 reptical without d3, and reptivite I get from the supershows usually lasts me a while.. (I get the 2 packets from each of the members of my family and that lasts for quite a while). D3 twice monthly, reptivite twice monthly, cal every day heavily dusted, sometimes I squirt liquid calcium onto things.
Watering - Homemade dripper drips 1/2 liter every day in the evening. Mist usually in the morning and afternoon pretty heavily for around 2-4 mins. I do not see him drink, but occasionally he shoots at 1 water drop off a branch or something that's it.
Fecal Description - No parasite testing. His fecals are white and brown like they should be.
History - His MBD is improved since he was first bought, but it is definitely not healed. I noticed his back is starting to look kind of... wavey. Like his spine is not straight horizontally or vertically all the way.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage 2x2x4 LLLreptile.
Lighting - Lights on 6:30 lights off 8:00. I have reptisun 5.0 for UVB instead of compact bulb. 1 60 watt bulb for heat, lowered the light too.
Temperature - Top of cage around 85-95 degrees. bottom is around 65-70. Measured with temp gun before it broke.
Humidity - Humidity around 20% when dry period. 50-70% when misted with water bottle. Dripper runs in evening so the humidity is around 40% evening.
Plants - Ficus benjamina 3 1/2 feet tall
Placement - Top of cage is around 7 feet tall. I have to get on a chair to reach the top. Not near any vents. Near a window that is open sometimes and he can see out.
Location - so cal

Current Problem - My father turned his lights on probably early in the morning like 5:30. Today I got home at 4:00 and it looked as if he hadn't moved from his sleeping spot. he was still in his sleeping colors.

When I offered him food it was as if he was still waking up. His lights were on.

He stared at the food for a while and then I put it super close to his nose and he bit it off my hand. He's eaten 2 dubis and 2 superworms.

The method I usually take to get him on my hand hasn't worked at all. I try and get him on my hand with a dubi or worm and he seemed very grumpy like hell no im not gettin on there today.

He is still in the same position he was, but he is in normal colors now.

I assume he hasn't basked all day.

Also I noticed his spine is starting to show more symptoms of MBD. While his legs appear to be getting better his spine is not exactly straight horizontally or vertically (only SLIGHTLY).

Also he is very lazy and lethargic lately. If I offer him a beetle on my hand he will try and bite it off with his mouth and tongue (without shooting) but if I let it go on a branch RIGHT next to his face he won't even see it.

Any advice.
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
Can you possibly post pictures of your chameleon and your setup?

Yes.

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Cage. That is an old pic since I don't have my camera. It has a 5.0 uvb tube now.

Right now he is drinking. By drinking, I mean viciously ripping wet leaves apart with his mouth. Aggressive drinker. He did not mind me misting him heavily with warm water until his body had drops all over it, haha. I even squirted a stream of water into his mouth and he drank it (grumpily though).

So now I know he's drinking.

I don't have any pics of his back. Most recent pic of him

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SaintJimmy

Avid Member
I may be parasite crazy but maybe you should have a fecal float done.

Do you know if most vets are willing to do it for a low price?

Also do I have to haul my grumpy boy to the vet or just the poop?

He doesn't look dehydrated or sick, he is just really lethargic. Hasn't moved much the whole day except to get away from me and drink, is staying his beddy bye colors the whole day.
 

tode88

New Member
My vet told me that taking them outside daily in the summer for about thirty minutes (supervised) does wonders for them. He said that 30 mins in the sun (not behind glass), is like 8 hrs under a uv bulb. I say this because your feeding him a lot and his body might not be able to keep up without his metabolism being in perfect condition. I would also spray him a lot so that he gets some water through his skin, this will keep him from getting worse from dehydration. a lot of times mbd can set in even with excess Calcium because they don't get enough natural light.

This helped me a ton and i was doing everything about the same a you.
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
My vet told me that taking them outside daily in the summer for about thirty minutes (supervised) does wonders for them. He said that 30 mins in the sun (not behind glass), is like 8 hrs under a uv bulb. I say this because your feeding him a lot and his body might not be able to keep up without his metabolism being in perfect condition. I would also spray him a lot so that he gets some water through his skin, this will keep him from getting worse from dehydration. a lot of times mbd can set in even with excess Calcium because they don't get enough natural light.

I have planned on taking him outside as often as possible since the day I owned him I swear..

He hates me all the sudden though.

I took him out 2 times just to bask for like 15 minutes and now he won't FULLY go on my hand. He will halfway go on my hand but he knows whats coming if he FULLY climbs on so he refuses food if he has to climb onto my hand anymore.

So I guess I can take him outside when he starts getting used to the hand trauma.
 

FlChamMom

Avid Member
Do you know if most vets are willing to do it for a low price?

Also do I have to haul my grumpy boy to the vet or just the poop?

He doesn't look dehydrated or sick, he is just really lethargic. Hasn't moved much the whole day except to get away from me and drink, is staying his beddy bye colors the whole day.

My guy does not look sick at all and he had coccidia. The only symptom was decreased eating. You don't have to take Monty in- just the poop. Call a vet to let them know you are bringing it in. The float I just had done cost $25. If you do have an issue medicine is about the same. By the way your cage base is awesome!
 

junglefries

Avid Member
outside time

please don't think i'm preachy. all my veils are super active and eating more after outside time. I leave them outside during May-September. if I try to bring them in when storms come, they give me a hard time. get him outside, he will love you for it, even if back won't let him show it.
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
My guy does not look sick at all and he had coccidia. The only symptom was decreased eating. You don't have to take Monty in- just the poop. Call a vet to let them know you are bringing it in. The float I just had done cost $25. If you do have an issue medicine is about the same. By the way your cage base is awesome!

Thank you very much. And thanks about the cage stand. :) I'm trying to design a more improved interior too but ugh.

Also to the person I couldn't quote (not on the right page)^ about the sunlight I will try and take him out today but if he doesn't want to I can't make him. :( I can't take the cage out either.
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
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took him out like you suggested. its his 3rd time outside and he was very nervous.

also I got a pic of his back.

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SaintJimmy

Avid Member
He looks like he has some MBD going on! Have you changed your UVB after you've had it for 6 months?

Yes in fact I've had the coil bulb (bad idea I know) and replaced it 3 friggin times.

And I recently got a 5.0 tube so I don't have to use the wretched coil bulb any more.

And he's getting more sun than he ever was so yeah.

And I've been making sure to dust extra calcium the past like 5 months.

thanks for responding btw
 
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