Length in labor of infertile eggs

KobaOregonherper said:
Original poster, thats you. MBD is metabolic bone disease. Comes from not dusting your crickets with calcium every feeding and then having a proper uvb linear bulb to provide your cham with the Vitamin D3 necessary to allow your cham to absorb the calcium. Definetely fill out the form @MissSkittles posted as well. If you dont fix this issue this will keep happening. If you get her spayed, the broken bones will still continue and eventually she wont be able to walk or eat.
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Will do. Spaying is out of question since vet said she is considered high risk. And chances of her making it are very low.
 
Mrs.Rocky said:
Will do. Spaying is out of question since vet said she is considered high risk. And chances of her making it are very low.
Click to expand...

Huh. Vet must not be comfortable doing a spay on a chameleon. Reptiles are always high risk under anesthesia. Then you'll want to leave her alone, alone alone, likes been recommended. Then, id take the time to answer all thebquestions in the response/questionnaire skittles sent to you, it'll help us help you keep her alive if she makes it through this.
 
MissSkittles said:
I believe addressing the husbandry issues has been deferred until after op gets her cham thru this. However, @Mrs.Rocky there are most likely many corrections that you’ll be needing to make. When you are ready, copy and paste the following and fill out with as much info as you can.

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
Click to expand...
do i copy and paste in this thread or in a new thread?
 
Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Veiled Chameleon, female. I do not know how old she is. She was a gift obtained from Petco on August. Petco stated ‘it might be a month old’ when she was purchased. She has been under my care since August 2019
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
When I first got her I tried every day, since I was told the more you try to handle her the more social she becomes. Noticed she was not happy and would hiss and turn with black spots. I read, and later was informed by other pet stores that a chameleon is to observe, not a social handling animal. I would let her roam around freely out of her cage, and then I would be able to grab her to place her back. She has been more tolerant or doesn’t resist when I try handling her for meds.
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule?
Large Crickets (50-60 a week) I drop them in on Friday so she can consume during the week. Would refill her cage the following Friday.
“Breeding Roaches” "XL large" (4-6 a week) Depending on appetite she usually takes 2/3 roaches 2x a week. Each feeding would be 3 days apart
Hornworms (1 big worm 2x a week) Alternate with the roaches
Meal worms (NONE) I have tried and shows no interest what so ever. Even the giant ones.
Dubia Roaches (hisses at them and will refuse to eat them)
I refrain from dumping crickets every other day, due to her hissing while ill try dumping them. She is more tolerant of my hand in with roaches/ hornworms.
  • How are you gut-loading your feeders?
I usually didn’t gut-load them, since once I bought them I would dump them in right away for consumption. I use FLUKER’S ORANGE CUBE and Mazuri Better Bug Gut Loading Diet for insects kept in container. Crickets left in cage id place a potato or carrot.
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Herptivite with Beta Carotene Multivitamins (Every feeding: dust on crickets. Dust on Roaches 2x a week with feeding)
Repi Calcium with D3 (stop using for a month since was told the multivitamin was sufficient) I now know I was informed wrong and have obtained it. I used to provide this once a week.
I have obtained also Flukers Calcium Spray (no D3) just for precaution. Haven’t used on chameleon.
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
She has access to her water dripper daily. I hand mist every morning, for about 1 or 2 minutes til enclosure is wet and humidity levels have gone up. If I notice enclosure is dry or humiditity levels have gone down to low I’ll remist (I wont allow humidity to drop below 40)
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
She hasn’t had any dropping recently. Prior it has been dark brown/black solid dropping. My chameleon has never been tested for parasites under my care.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
She is currently trying to lay the rest of eggs.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Screened cage. 16” L X 16” W X 30”H
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Zilla Heat & UVB Basking Fixture
Zilla Mini Halogen White Day Bilb 50 Watts
Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 UVB 13Watts
Light fixture gets turned on at 7am and gets turned off at 6pm
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Tempture varies between 70-85.
Bottom of cage is around 72
Top of cage 74-75
Basking Spot 80-82 (Sometimes reached 85)
Lowest temp over night 62
Measuring temp: Imagitarium Round Thermometer Gauge and Zoo Med Digital Thermometer (basking spot)
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Humidity ranges from 40-60. I mist daily to kept it at 50.
Imagitarium Thermometer Humidity Gauge
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Artificial Plants only
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Cage is in the front of the house, secluded from all the commotion. Once you walk in you can see her. But its really kept aside for kids not to bother. Its an area no one goes to, probably most used for is phone calls. An air conditioner is above her cage, covered, and not used (not even for summer). 25 inches from room flower to where cage is sitting.
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?
New York

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
Trying to get a husbandry right after she is done laying eggs. She has seen a vet. If you’ve followed the thread, I have/we have been trying to get her to release all her eggs. she is under meds currently. Next vet appointment is this week coming up.
 
Mrs.Rocky said:
Will do. Spaying is out of question since vet said she is considered high risk. And chances of her making it are very low.
Click to expand...
If she pulls through this I would consider spaying , along with pet ins . I do not mean to come across as rude or ignorant . I do not think you understand this process the seriousness of this process and that you absolutely need to leave her alone . I’m not at all saying you can’t keep or your not a good keeper so please don’t think that . Females Have different requirements ( basking temps/feeding ) so many do not grasp this concept . Anyhow I don’t want to go on and on it won’t be helpful to you at the moment. Still praying for her .
 
Kristen Wilkins said:
If she pulls through this I would consider spaying , along with pet ins . I do not mean to come across as rude or ignorant . I do not think you understand this process the seriousness of this process and that you absolutely need to leave her alone . I’m not at all saying you can’t keep or your not a good keeper so please don’t think that . Females Have different requirements ( basking temps/feeding ) so many do not grasp this concept . Anyhow I don’t want to go on and on it won’t be helpful to you at the moment. Still praying for her .
Click to expand...
Totally get it. First time owner of a chameleon. I have been trying my best. So I am hopefully she will pull through. Wasn’t aware that female and males need different things. Until I came across this website. But thank you. And appreciate every input.
 
Mrs.Rocky said:
Totally get it. First time owner of a chameleon. I have been trying my best. So I am hopefully she will pull through. Wasn’t aware that female and males need different things. Until I came across this website. But thank you. And appreciate every input.
Click to expand...

Most do not we all start some place . I found this site as you did with having so much to learn in 2015 , Circumstances very similar (Frances ). My boys brought her home from petsmart . My 2 years of research had been on panthers and a male panther . Everything the pet store told my boys was wrong along with Frances being a boy . I kept waiting for them Spurs to show them selfs lol .

I should have returned her . I found this site along with an amazing vet , She was a very sick girl . She was mean as a junkyard dog whom we loved to pieces . We lost Frances March of 2019 she Was just shy of 4 , 4 spring of 2019 .

Anyhow this site taught me so much more than the two years of research . I’ve made some amazing friends here and lost some too . All of my babies have come from friends here . My point is this site is a wealth of information , will get you from point A to point B as long as you have an open mind . Best of luck ❤.
 
Last edited:
Bigsky said:
Its not unusual for them to just drop eggs, especially the first batch of infertile eggs.
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It absolutely is wrong for them (veileds especially) to be dropping eggs...the eggs should be buried in a hole....infertile or not. In 30+ years of keeping chameleons I only recall one of my females dropping eggs....and she had an injury and her shelling gland was damaged so she produced unhooked eggs. If they're dropping them then there's something wrong with the chameleon or the husbandry IMHO.
 
Last edited:
@Mrs.Rocky While I’ve only had chams for 6-7 months, I can offer input about some aspects of your husbandry.
Feeding: It sounds like every Fri you dump 50-60 crickets in her cage. Crickets can/will bite your cham. Plus, they aren’t gutloaded so offer little nutrition. The orange cubes are basically worthless. Will attach feeding and gutloading sheets. No idea what breeding roaches are. Obviously she’s an adult so should be fed the equivalent of 5 crickets every other day. Gutloading is super important as it passes nutrition on to your cham. Variety of feeders is also good. Bsfl (Calciworms, Phoenix worms), silkworms are nice additions.
Every other day my girls have come to expect feeding and it’s one of the few times that they don’t mind me looking at them.
Supplements: I’m not sure what regimen you’ll be needing to use to get her back to health. Once all of this is passed, there are 2 different popular basic regimens. -Repashy brand calcium with LoD dusted at every feeding and no other supplement needed. OR phosphorus free calcium without D3 every feeding and 2 feedings per month calcium with D3 and 2 feedings/month with multivitamin.
Is always a very good idea to have a fecal test done. Parasites are more common than we think.
Enclosure: I strongly advise you upgrade to a 2x2x4’ enclosure. I think of it as us living in a closet...we can do it, but not happily.
F1250875-A1C5-4338-9797-22535829AEF2.jpeg
70EA4C06-86DF-45E6-B460-D5A03370BF4B.jpeg

LIGHTS: This part is just as important as correct supplements. The dome uvb light does not provide adequate uvb. Without correct uvb and bit D3, she can’t use the calcium. A linear/long T5HO uvb with a 5% bulb that spans the width of her enclosure is needed. Reptisun sells a decent one that comes with a bulb. The bulb needs to be changed every 6 months. The sooner you can get this, the better for your girl.
Your basking light is fine as is your schedule. Usually we say 12 hours on/off.
Temps/humidity: Both of these are fine for her. You don’t want it any hotter or humid during the day. At night you could increase humidity with a cool mist humidifier.
Live plants are always the best. Veileds eat their plants and if they eat an artificial leaf, they’ll get impacted. You need to make sure plants are safe. Pothos is my favorite...grows fast, viney and chams seem to enjoy it. Is a good one to start with and can go from there.
If she pulls thru this, these are the changes you’ll be needing to make. In the meantime, place a light sheet around the lower half of her enclosure to give her more privacy, check on her periodically and fingers crossed she makes it thru.
 
MissSkittles said:
@Mrs.Rocky While I’ve only had chams for 6-7 months, I can offer input about some aspects of your husbandry.
Feeding: It sounds like every Fri you dump 50-60 crickets in her cage. Crickets can/will bite your cham. Plus, they aren’t gutloaded so offer little nutrition. The orange cubes are basically worthless. Will attach feeding and gutloading sheets. No idea what breeding roaches are. Obviously she’s an adult so should be fed the equivalent of 5 crickets every other day. Gutloading is super important as it passes nutrition on to your cham. Variety of feeders is also good. Bsfl (Calciworms, Phoenix worms), silkworms are nice additions.
Every other day my girls have come to expect feeding and it’s one of the few times that they don’t mind me looking at them.
Supplements: I’m not sure what regimen you’ll be needing to use to get her back to health. Once all of this is passed, there are 2 different popular basic regimens. -Repashy brand calcium with LoD dusted at every feeding and no other supplement needed. OR phosphorus free calcium without D3 every feeding and 2 feedings per month calcium with D3 and 2 feedings/month with multivitamin.
Is always a very good idea to have a fecal test done. Parasites are more common than we think.
Enclosure: I strongly advise you upgrade to a 2x2x4’ enclosure. I think of it as us living in a closet...we can do it, but not happily.View attachment 254986View attachment 254987
LIGHTS: This part is just as important as correct supplements. The dome uvb light does not provide adequate uvb. Without correct uvb and bit D3, she can’t use the calcium. A linear/long T5HO uvb with a 5% bulb that spans the width of her enclosure is needed. Reptisun sells a decent one that comes with a bulb. The bulb needs to be changed every 6 months. The sooner you can get this, the better for your girl.
Your basking light is fine as is your schedule. Usually we say 12 hours on/off.
Temps/humidity: Both of these are fine for her. You don’t want it any hotter or humid during the day. At night you could increase humidity with a cool mist humidifier.
Live plants are always the best. Veileds eat their plants and if they eat an artificial leaf, they’ll get impacted. You need to make sure plants are safe. Pothos is my favorite...grows fast, viney and chams seem to enjoy it. Is a good one to start with and can go from there.
If she pulls thru this, these are the changes you’ll be needing to make. In the meantime, place a light sheet around the lower half of her enclosure to give her more privacy, check on her periodically and fingers crossed she makes it thru.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. Yes I refized the enclosure how it was before when you guys recommended covering her. I just undid it because it was back and form discussion with the vet. And it was a fail. So I see her more relaxed. And hopefull. I will definelty look into these things. Even the light fixture should be waited til after she pulls through?
 
Mrs.Rocky said:
Thank you so much. Yes I refized the enclosure how it was before when you guys recommended covering her. I just undid it because it was back and form discussion with the vet. And it was a fail. So I see her more relaxed. And hopefull. I will definelty look into these things. Even the light fixture should be waited til after she pulls through?
Click to expand...
You could get the light from now...it’s up to you. Not sure if placing it on top would disturb her laying attempts. You could do it at night when she’s asleep. When you do get one, get the one that will be for a larger enclosure (assuming you’ll be upgrading enclosure). This is the one I use.
https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-2605...d=1577911658&sprefix=Reptisun,aps,168&sr=8-27
 
The whole dumping crickets in is a dangerous game to play. If your dumping 60 in they can bite your cham over night. Are you afraid of bugs? Because you need to be feeding sparingly every other day, especially with a female. Get a nice pair of tongs, throw 8 in a large cup or bag, throw in some calcium powder without d3 or vitamins, and give them a nice shake. I use my hands but you use tongs and either put them in a feeder cup, place them on the screen. Im sure dumping them works for others, but dumping 50-60 in, she can eat all of them in a couple of days if she wanted to, which you should try and control.
 
KobaOregonherper said:
The whole dumping crickets in is a dangerous game to play. If your dumping 60 in they can bite your cham over night. Are you afraid of bugs? Because you need to be feeding sparingly every other day, especially with a female. Get a nice pair of tongs, throw 8 in a large cup or bag, throw in some calcium powder without d3 or vitamins, and give them a nice shake. I use my hands but you use tongs and either put them in a feeder cup, place them on the screen. Im sure dumping them works for others, but dumping 50-60 in, she can eat all of them in a couple of days if she wanted to, which you should try and control.
Click to expand...
Not afraid at all. I actually do touch them with my hands. But I noticed she would get upset and try lunging when I placed a couple in with the vitamins etc. So I thought it would be easier to just dump them. And yes she would consume all of them in a couple of days. So before Friday they’d be gone. She is more tolerant of my hand with roaches or hornworm. But the crickets she isn’t. Yes I will try to control her feeding. Thank you. When she is back up to eating I was told multivitamin is once’s a week so not sure how that would work.
 
MissSkittles said:
You could get the light from now...it’s up to you. Not sure if placing it on top would disturb her laying attempts. You could do it at night when she’s asleep. When you do get one, get the one that will be for a larger enclosure (assuming you’ll be upgrading enclosure). This is the one I use.
https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-2605...d=1577911658&sprefix=Reptisun,aps,168&sr=8-27
Click to expand...
How big should her enclosure get. I was told that was the biggest I can get and it will be for her in adulthood. Smh. What bull misinfo they give.
 
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