Leaf cham << HELP needed

scooter4n

Established Member
Ok, Here is what I need to know.
I'm setting up leaf/ stump tail cham cage, and I'm planing to get one little later.
I have 20gal aquarium.
Can I keep male and female there?
For them to reproduce, I need them for different breeder or same clutch is ok?
Do I remove eggs from the cage, or keep then in there?
What you use for the ground in the cage? Soil? moss? bark?
What age shoud I get them?

Please feel free to input anything.
Thanks
 

binaryterror

New Member
Can I keep male and female there?
Yes, for a 20g tank like you have, I would suggest a 1.2 (1 male and 2 females) or maybe a 1.3 (1 male and 3 females) group

For them to reproduce, I need them for different breeder or same clutch is ok?
I don't really understand what you are asking here.

Do I remove eggs from the cage, or keep then in there?
You can do either, and they will be fine. Although some say that it is best to take them out so you can monitor them.

What you use for the ground in the cage? Soil? moss? bark?
You could just use top soil if you like, but due to all of the misting needed for them you should use layers to help keep the enclosure dry. Many use these substrate layers:

Top soil or Moss (top)
Charcoal or "Carbon" (middle)
Hydroton (bottom)

Those layers help absorb smelly water, and most water in general!


What age should I get them?
Age really doesn't matter. However, try to make sure you get CB rather than WC. The WC carry alot of parasites, etc that you do not want in your group,

Let us know with any more questiong you have! It is great that you are researching before you buy them.
 

scooter4n

Established Member
I was going to do layers like that>> http://www.chameleonnews.com/stumphabitat.html and them moss on to, but under moss bark is ok, or moss needs soil?
Should I get all of them from same parents, or male has to be from different parents them females???
We have reptile show coming up on 27th of this month, and I'll like to have everything ready by then.
How re they react to handling, just like other chams?
what should I watch for getting them?
Thanks
 

Brad Ramsey

Retired Moderator
Scooter,

I don't know enough about the leaf chameleons, but if it were me I would try for a group with all members unrelated.

-Brad
 

Brad Ramsey

Retired Moderator
By the way......
There has been a lot about these guys in the forums lately and it's getting me very interested.
And by interested I might mean excited.
I may be joining you and binaryterror and Roo and the rest sooner than I think!
We have a show in Denver on the 27th as well.

-Brad
 

Heika

New Member
Here are a couple pics of my 65 gallon brev setup:





A smalller homemade setup:



Brookesia setup:



I haven't taken any new pictures in a while, but I have several other tanks as well. I have used everything from fish tank gravel to hydroton for the first layer, and prefer the hydroton. It works really well as the drainage layer. Then screen, charcoal, screen, and then the top layer. I use nice topsoil mixed with sand and sometimes pumice for the top layer, and then lay a heavy layer of crumbled dry leaves over the top of that. Then, I put in a few whole leaves, and then a bit of moss around the base of the plants. There was a time that I used cocofiber in the top layer as well, but have had better success with drainage when I don't use it.

It really is best to breed unrelated animals, and cb or ch are the easiest to deal with. With my ch and cb youngsters, I have seen none of the problems with eye infections that the WC have had. They are healthy, plump, and well acclimated. And, I have an excessive number of them.. and I live in Oregon, Scooter... :D

I pull the eggs for incubation. It really makes it easier to monitor the eggs as they grow and to locate the babies when they hatch. A brev hatchling is a tiny thing.. see the pic below of one on a toothpick.. and hatching into a huge tank where food is spread out makes your chances of successfully rearing the baby to adulthood less likely. They are a really, really fun project, but the offspring tend to overrun your household before too long. These little chams are full of character. I would rather watch a tank full of brevs than the TV any day. I keep only one adult male to a breeding group, but I do house several juvenile males together in one enclosure without any problem. I tried to house two males together in the 65 gallon, and had immediate problems. I split them up into two breeding groups. A 20 gallon would easily hold a pair or trio of brevs.



Heika
 

Heika

New Member
About as far as I can get from Portland and still be in the state.. :(

Klamath Falls. Shipping is an option tho...

Heika
 

scooter4n

Established Member
sounds good.
When are you planing to have some baby leafs for sale?
I'll probably go with 1.2
 

jleahl

New Member
Scooter, the only question Heika didn't answer was the one about handling...and I'd say, don't. I've had mine out a few times to clean their tank, but I just pick up the stick they're on (or strongly suggest they get onto), then put it in a different box or tank. I have let them climb on a tape measure to check their length; but they are so tiny to hold in your hand!

I'm curious about the same-clutch breeding thing, 'cause I think (I'm not sure) that my 2.1 may be from the same clutch; I'll have to check w/Mike from FLChams. My son actually asked me the other day about that...:confused:
 

scooter4n

Established Member
Thanks guys, very good info, Im on the right track.
What about temps and humidity? And what is the deal with UVB, I read different sides, some say 2% UVB is the way to go, some say that this guys don't need it.
 

scooter4n

Established Member
Thanks roo, I was hoping maybe for some special tips :)
hey heika, so how about it? Where did you go?

I can't find hydroton rocks anywhere, should I just use gravel or something?
 

Heika

New Member
Hiya Scooter,

Shoot me an email or PM me, I have plenty.

Hydroton is impossible to find in my town, so I order it from LLLReptile. I really prefer it as the drain layer, but I do have a couple with gravel.

Heika
 

roo_71

New Member
Thanks roo, I was hoping maybe for some special tips
Well in regards to misting/hydration, just pay really good attention to the enclosure and how often the chams drink. And as the article mentions, the home environment and outside weather play a huge role in how often I mist and for how long. NOTHING is set it and forget it – but I do have routines – just not rigid ones. You constantly need to pay attention to things.

If the chams are drinking every time you mist then you aren’t misting enough at each session – or temps are too warm.

If foliage is wet prior to the next misting then you are misting too much. Give the foliage/cage adornments time to dry off before next misting.

If the substrate is bone dry then you aren’t misting enough. Substrate should be somewhat damp at all times – but not necessarily throughout the enclosure. A few dry spots is ok.

If you start seeing shrooms pop up then you are either misting too much or the tank isn’t getting good air flow. I use 2 oscillating fans in my pygmy room. One is waist level to stir up the air in the lower tanks and other is elevated for tanks on the higher shelves of the racks. Air flow is SUPER important - especially since most of us use tanks and not screen cages for pygmy chams.

An enclosure too wet can also create blooms of bacteria which should be avoided. Pill bugs and springtails, to a certain extent, will help keep the enclosure cleaner then without them.

What helps is that misting pump I use that was mentioned in the article. It really allows me to control how much water I put into the tanks. You can get them at Big Apple Herp (google it). It’s a really fine mist which is well tolerated by the chams.

I’ve been working with pygmies for just over 2 years straight I still make mistakes with misting on the occasion. Maintaining the proper environment is the trickiest thing about them and comparing their setups to my true chams, they take much work and I need to pay closer attention to them. Since I have a drainage system, a simpler setup, and an all screen cages for my true chams, their enclosure can’t really get out of hand like a pygmy one can.

You can use gravel ($$$ / heavy) – or something else other then hydroton. I can see hydroton being difficult to find. If there are any nurseries that specialize in orchids, then they should have it. You could probably get it online too – it isn’t super heavy stuff but the box it gets shipped in may be on the large size.

-roo
 

jleahl

New Member
Scooter, this is an unorthodox substitute, but I have used styrofoam packing peanuts in the bottom layer of some of my terrarium/vivariums. Only suggestion is to get the s-shaped ones, as opposed to the 8-shaped ones, because the 8 ones squish down easier. They're lightweight, inert, and they don't mold or get yuck. (I'm so scientific about this stuff!;) )
 

scooter4n

Established Member
Scooter, this is an unorthodox substitute, but I have used styrofoam packing peanuts in the bottom layer of some of my terrarium/vivariums. Only suggestion is to get the s-shaped ones, as opposed to the 8-shaped ones, because the 8 ones squish down easier. They're lightweight, inert, and they don't mold or get yuck. (I'm so scientific about this stuff!;) )
Thanks, I know what your talking about and I can get hold of S shape easy at our shipping dept.
thanks, Ill just do that.
How about UVB, to Be or not to BE???
 
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