KY quad shipment

[pamnsam94]

Some pics of the quads that were shipped to KY. I've only been caring for them for 18 days, but I'm sure going to miss them. Most of them will be going to live in OH for a while. First up are pics of them right after I took them out of the shipping box and got their weights. One female has gained 19 grams while two other females have gained 15 grams. Wasn't sure at first, but I wouldn't be too surprised if all three of the largest females (now 59 g, 55 g, and 45 g) were gravid. I'm hoping for the best and for Laurie, Kevin, and myself to each end up with some eggs. All of these guys have been given Panacur. Only the two largest males have lost weight (one lost 5 g while the other lost 3 g). The first and last pics are of an 8 gram female and a 12 gram female, much smaller than any of us would have expected. The 8 gram female now weighs 9 grams (still concerned about her) while the 12 gram female now weighs 20 grams. I'm really pleased with her progress. The small male in the photo went from 20 to 31 grams. He's eating a lot too.

 

[pamnsam94]

More pics from the day the quads arrived on 12/23.

 

[pamnsam94]

Pics taken on 1/9/15, the day before most of these will be driven to a new, temporary home.

 

[GCash]

The last two boys are absolute stunners! Glad to see they are shaping up. Keep up the good work and hope you're correct on them being gravid. It'd be a welcomed turn of events for you guys. As always, good luck!

 

[Dooley1]

Thanks for taking such good care of them Perry!

 

[laurie]

Having that many quads, even for a short time, must be fun! I wish they were all coming to me, but no Dooley1 has to have his. You didn't post pictures of the gracilior's, how come? Bet lots of people would love to see them.

Safe travels for both you and Cheryl.

 

[pamnsam94]

Ask and you shall receive. I love the orange scales on the male. The female, one-eyed Jackie, lost one eye in the wild but gets along just fine. It even appears she might be gravid. She's put on 11 grams in 18 days.

Perry

 

[laurie]

They are both looking good. They have all done well with you.

 

[pamnsam94]

a few more pics of the KY quad shipment

It's amazing but when I first received the shipment, I couldn't say for sure that any of the females were gravid. Now I don't think there's much question that the female in the back is gravid. She's the one that put on 19 grams in 18 days, although I don't know how much of that gain is due to water and food. If the eggs turn out to be good (Cheryl has that female now), maybe the overall disappointment of keepers in the "quad collective" (I like that name. Makes me think of the Borg Collective from the Next Generation Star Trek series. I'm clueless. Was that intentional?) will be lessened to some extent if they eventually end up with some of the offspring of these girls. I feel really good about the general condition of all three of the larger females in the KY quad shipment. I just wish the CA shipment would have received some females like these.

Perry

 

[pamnsam94]

Cheryl, do you have a laying bin set up for that girl yet? I suspect that any day now she might start looking for a site to dig in.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Wow, she looks great! Lots of eggs coming soon.

 

[rsepiphyte]

OK, I am in Louisville Kentucky. Where are you located and if i can help in any way let me know. I am a pharmacist and very experienced in Chameleon husbandry. Let me know if i can help in any way. I even have some extra cages and lights if you need them. Quads are some of my favorites chameleons and i think it would be fantastic if several viable colonies could be established! Best of luck to you! Slainte' Ruth

 

[little leaf]

Cheryl, do you have a laying bin set up for that girl yet? I suspect that any day now she might start looking for a site to dig in.

yes all the girls have them - except for the little one - I also have pickles ready if they should want those too anything they want

one went down today to check hers out - she wandered about a short time , and then went back up and decided to eat some roaches instead - all are doing well except the larger male - he has me really worried- he looks ok one min/ then not the next - and the fading bite marks - what these poor things must have gone threw - and the little female , she just crashed - she had been eating , and drinking - looked like she was making a turn for the better- but Perry gave me info on each one when we met up, and he also had told me he was very worried about her and the male - I was talking to Laurie that afternoon , sent her a pic, I was so happy how she was looking- she was active, nice color- 5 hrs later- she died it was very sad - not only to lose any cham, but there is so much invested in these little guys, and I know each and every cham is so cherished by the Quad keepers - and these gravid girls- talk about the goose laying the golden eggs they have one more short trip to make to Kevin , we are not really that far from each other - as long as they are up for the trip, ( hand driven ) they will be delivering their eggs w/ him - and that is how it should be, these people have worked so very hard to make this happen - I am happy I can just be a tiny part of helping them - the big male and smallest female will stay here until most likely spring , and then off to Laurie's on a side note - the female gracilior did not want to be left out of the egg game either - she also looks to be gravid as long as the girls look good ( and they do ) in a few days I will drive them to meet up with Kevin - my husband thinks I am nuts- LOL - I refuse to "go away" because I dont want to leave my chams- but in the last 60 days, I have traveled over 1,000 miles for either rescue chams - or just being a taxi I am so excited to get these little ones to the final home and cant wait to see Kevin work his magic on those eggs !!

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I don't remember where the post was made, but it was when I got my animal from this import and another member posted they had just gotten one but needed some advice...

In that post I mentioned this import had a real heavy parasite load of adult parasites. The fecal was done by Bill and Dr. Greek. I've seen and dealt with loads like this one so I was not shocked but Bill was a little. Because of that experience I warned that this import needed some serious watching. Normally with a load like that the animals crash fast (Like overnight fast) after about the 30 day mark unless a few things get provided.

- Panacur (just one med for now since a weaken animal with that big a load might not handle two meds at once)
- Hydration Hydration Hydration ( I even use gator aid twice a week. A few drops is all) since the kidneys are working overtime between possibly flushing out the toxins from the dead load, the meds, and the importation process.
- Lots of shelter, rest, don't handle, etc etc.

The male that is going up and down with his health, I would increase his hydration asap, a little gatoraid too. If it was mine anyway. Hopefully you can save him.
-

 

[pamnsam94]

The male in the 4th photo is beyond the point of no return. I expect he'll be dead within the hour. All of the quads were really dehydrated and drank a ton when I received them. Several of them developed edemas. This male, along with an adult female I kept, had the biggest edemas out of the group of 11. I suspect mostly the edemas were due to dehydration or else the importer might have used supplements or gutloads containing high levels of D3. Their kidneys and livers are so small and seem to easily malfunction or suffer permanent damage. Just yesterday, he looked really good and he was eating well. He had gained 11 grams as of last week. I'm continually amazed how quickly these guys can drop. This male's death make me even more concerned about the adult female since she has an edema too.

 

[jajeanpierre]

The male in the 4th photo is beyond the point of no return. I expect he'll be dead within the hour. All of the quads were really dehydrated and drank a ton when I received them. Several of them developed edemas. This male, along with an adult female I kept, had the biggest edemas out of the group of 11. I suspect mostly the edemas were due to dehydration or else the importer might have used supplements or gutloads containing high levels of D3. Their kidneys and livers are so small and seem to easily malfunction or suffer permanent damage. Just yesterday, he looked really good and he was eating well. He had gained 11 grams as of last week. I'm continually amazed how quickly these guys can drop. This male's death make me even more concerned about the adult female since she has an edema too.

I'm so sorry.

Will you do a necropsy on him?

 

[pamnsam94]

The male in the 4th photo is beyond the point of no return.

I never quoted my own post before, and I never have used the phrase "point of no return" and been wrong about it. I found him earlier today hanging by one foot, his tongue hanging out all the way, and his colors were extremely splotchy. He had the death glaze in his eyes (experience keepers know exactly what I mean), his eyes were not moving, he was mostly limp, and I could barely detect him breathing. I threaded his tongue back on the hyoid cartilage and put his limp body on a plant sitting in a windowsill for what I anticipated was his last moments of life. He opened his mouth again, forcefully exhaled and his tongue came out again, dangling down in mid air over the edge of the plant. His eyes were now closed. This time, I thought I would leave him alone since I figured it was only a matter of minutes. Once, when I went to check on him, I rotated the plant pot and he mostly pulled his tongue back into his mouth. He went back to his normal coloration, not blotched anymore. About a minute later, he pulled his tongue the rest of the way into his mouth and opened and closed his mouth a few times as if he was drinking. His eyes were open now but he was mostly staring out the window. A few minutes later, he was looking around with both eyes as a healthy chameleon would. It's as if the kidneys (my guess??) started functioning again. If it was his kidneys malfunctioning, I would expect them to malfunction again. I still expect I'll lose him so I only have a very small glimmer of hope. Of all the chameleons I've unfortunately seen die, never have I seen such a turnaround, even if it's only going to be short-lived.

 

[laurie]

Well for now, you just hope. Quads can be so strange. Good luck.

 

[pamnsam94]

Here he is over 7 hours later. I wish I would have taken a pic of him when he looked 99% dead. I don't think even the most experienced keeper would have given him even a 1% chance of surviving more than an hour. Again, I can't stress enough how dead he looked. I've never seen a chameleon look that dead to looking this alive in such a short period of time. No doubt he has some serious underlying issues that could easily take his life at any time. His edema doesn't show well in this shot, but depending on how he's sitting, it's really obvious.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Here he is over 7 hours later. I wish I would have taken a pic of him when he looked 99% dead. I don't think even the most experienced keeper would have given him even a 1% chance of surviving more than an hour. Again, I can't stress enough how dead he looked. I've never seen a chameleon look that dead to looking this alive in such a short period of time. No doubt he has some serious underlying issues that could easily take his life at any time. His edema doesn't show well in this shot, but depending on how he's sitting, it's really obvious.

I once had a turtle do something similar. I just found it dead in the pond. Stretched out, completely limp, dead at the bottom. I can't remember if I gave it CPR by pushing its hind legs in and out of his shell. The darn thing recovered. I think it might have choked on some fish, but I honestly have absolutely no idea what happened. They were fairly large turtles, and I was feeding them whole fish about the size of their carapaces or longer, about 10 or 12 inches. Turtles have been known to absorb oxygen from water through their cloaca, so I assumed that is what happened.

I hope your quad is as lucky as my turtle. My turtle never had an other episode.