Kinyongia eggs

[Eaton]

Hello,
I'm new in this forum and in the world of the chameleons.
I maintain for 6 months a couple of Kinyongia Fischeri, these they have carried out 2 settings of 20 eggs each a (buy them adults and the female gravid was).
I didn't find a lot of information on the incubation of this species, so carry out some tests with 1º setting
They got lost 5 eggs for too much heat and 5 but for an accident with the incubator (flooded), the rest is in a basement, placed in different jars with humid vermiculite to 18º C / 20º C, and they seem to evolve correctly.
I would thank some information or experiences own envelope the incubation and hatchling of this species, as well as of their general maintenance.
Thank you…. and sorry for my poor English.


I go up them some pictures of the animals, and of the eggs.

 

[Cainschams]

Beautiful looking animals!!! Here is a good article on them.
http://chameleonnews.com/05DecKroo.html

I have not hatched the "Standard Fischers" but I have hatched "Dwarf Fischers". I kept my eggs between 18 and 20 celsius and they hatch around 10.5 months. Sounds like you got your temps at a good temperature

 

[Seeco]

Your male is a Kinyongia vosseleri and your female is a Kinyongia multituberculata. See this post by biologist Chris Anderson for more identification help:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/fischers-chameleon-kinyongia-fischeri-22395/

You should not mate them together.

 

[Cainschams]

Your male is a Kinyongia vosseleri and your female is a Kinyongia multituberculata. See this post by biologist Chris Anderson for more identification help:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/fischers-chameleon-kinyongia-fischeri-22395/

You should not mate them together.

I thought this myself but was not sure

 

[Eaton]

Thank you to respond so quickly.
Is the hybridization possible among these species?, would they be fertile? I don't want it, just a question.
They are not together for the time being, during a brief period they shared terrarium, although they were not bothered, I followed the recommendations of other fans.
I suppose that the female match up with another of their species before being captured so if it leaves something of the eggs it should be multituberculata.
We will see that it passes before looking for appropriate partners.
You can help me with the incubation parameters, and the time that lapses until hatchling, exists some trick or things to keep in mind?
Thank you again.

 

[CNorton]

Is it the dorsal crest spines that give it away as a vosseleri? From what I can tell, the multis have spines that extend to the tail while with voss the spines stop before mid-spine and are smooth to the tail. Also, looks like voss typically have a white patch off of the cheek and shoulders.

Help me out someone, the multis and voss look really similar!

 

[Chris Anderson]

Is it the dorsal crest spines that give it away as a vosseleri? From what I can tell, the multis have spines that extend to the tail while with voss the spines stop before mid-spine and are smooth to the tail. Also, looks like voss typically have a white patch off of the cheek and shoulders.

Help me out someone, the multis and voss look really similar!

Male K. multituberculata have a dorsal crest that extends >1/2 the length down the back and lack a brown saddle behind the head while male K. vosseleri have a dorsal crest that extends ~1/3 or less of the length down the back and have a brown saddle behind the head.

Chris

 

[showjet95]

the way I can tell and Im sure its not the "correct" or 100% accurate way to tell is by the gigantic thick horns the vosseleri posses multis seem to be much smaller IMO

 

[Mario Vermunt]

My females multituberculata never had so big horns as this one on the photo, neither as large as the female horns shown in the article of the link provided.
Actually they looked more like the vosseleri females mentioned in the article.

When shippments arrived here in the netherlands between 2000-2005 i did a lot of research looking at the animals, and comparing with photo's on the adcham site, which now unfortunatly is down.

Vosseleri wasn't mentioned back then...

Now i see/read if i am correct, vosseleri males with large nostrals compared to multituberculata, but females in which multi's have larger nostrals then vosseleri females. For the rostrals it matches more in both male/female multi and less in vosseleri male/female in the article.

I do see that the vosseleri females in the article look like the multi females back then on the adcham site. Confusing me...

I know from back then at the importers site, everything was really allways together in the shippments, containing all: multi's,vosseleri, tavetanum, matschiei...

Chris how did you determine which females, belong to which males?

 

[Chris Anderson]

Mario,

There are various keys available to differentiate the two-horned chameleons. To summarize though, only female K. multituberculata and K. matschiei have horns while K. fischeri, K. vosseleri, K. uluguruensis, K. tavetana and K. boehmei females lack horns or they are only faintly indicated. Female K. multituberculata have a dorsal crest that extends ~half way down the back while the dorsal crest of female K. matschiei are very short, only about 1/5 of the length of the back. Of the remaining species only female K. vosseleri and K. tavetana lack a dorsal crest but female K. tavetana have two rows of enlarged scales on top of the head that female K. vosseleri lack. Female K. uluguruensis can be differentiated by having two rows of enlarged scales on the flanks of their bodies. Finally the lateral crest on the skull of female K. fischeri originates higher on the orbit than in female K. boehmei.

Chris

 

[Seeco]

I suppose that the female match up with another of their species before being captured so if it leaves something of the eggs it should be multituberculata.
We will see that it passes before looking for appropriate partners.
You can help me with the incubation parameters, and the time that lapses until hatchling, exists some trick or things to keep in mind?
Thank you again.

Yes the female probably mated with a male multituberculata so keep the eggs. Incubation will be 10 to 12 months depending on temps from 67 to 72. If you have just one clutch you can start at 72 then drop 1 degree per month until 68 degrees then begin to increase 1 degree per month until 72 again.

Don't wait before looking for appropriate partners. You should look for vossleri female rather than multituberculata male in my opinion!

 

[Eaton]

Thank you all, the comments are very interesting.
The female performed 2 broods of 20 eggs each, the first on December/02/ 2010 which lost 10 eggs, five remain in the original clutch, and 5 more in a tupper with vermiculite in the basement of my house, where temperatures in winter are 17ºC 18º C, slowly increase until the summer during which do not exceed 23ºC relative humidity of the basement is high, due to the installation of water.
The second clutch was 17/March/2011.
The total of controlled eggs is 25, placed in the basement in three tuppers, have a look good on the outside, and I looked inside of some with a homemade dark camera, appear to be embryonic development, at a very early stage, there is a pink, and a small core very clear first clutch.


You'll have informed if something happens.
Thank you and congratulations for this forum

 

[Eaton]

Hello, I just want to share this birth with you.
It's been a long wait, I'm very happy today.
Thanks for your help.
'll Post more pictures in a few days of small chameleons.
Bye!

 

[Cainschams]

Awesome!! Congratulations on a successful incubation. Yes, more pictures!!!!

 

[VeiledChams]

Congratulations!


Visca Barça- fan del Barcelona en la Florida

 

[Seeco]

Ah no way! That went fast!

 

[Eaton]

Ah no way! That went fast!

Fast?, If only 311 days lol.
Now only one egg out, two more broken eggs and I guess tonight will be out.
two more sweating.
Thank you all for your comments.

 

[bigcappa]

311 days omg! so long.... Congrats and good luck with the others!

 

[Thezillaman21]

awe congrats. get some fruit flies ready man!! very cute chameleons.

Your male is a Kinyongia vosseleri and your female is a Kinyongia multituberculata. See this post by biologist Chris Anderson for more identification help:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/fischers-chameleon-kinyongia-fischeri-22395/

You should not mate them together.

hey seeco or chris, what happens when you cross breed his male and female? i mean they are both kinyongia but because they are diffrent species will the babys be infurtile? like they are if u cross breed a lion with a tiger.

 

[Seeco]

Compared to my incubation 311 days is very fast. Can you share your incubation info?