Keeps missing target

bucky

bucky

New Member
Hi, I have a panther chameleon who keeps missing his target whenever he is eating. I cup feed him, and he overshoots it by hitting above the cricket. He has to get real close to be able to hit it. But while hes doing this the crickets are jumping around like crazy and end up hopping out of the cup. After this he can almost never get them while they are out free ranging in his enclosure. Can anyone tell me whats the problem?
 
What kind of UVB bulb are you using? It it the coil type? It could be an eye problem and he's not seeing well or I've also read on here it could possible be a calcium inbalance. What's your supplementing like? What brands and how ofter?
 
If he seems to have basic muscle control and can extend his tongue it may not be a nutritional problem. A tip. Instead of a feeding cup, try putting the crix in a larger plastic storage box so they are spread out more. He can perch on the rim or on a branch placed over the box, and shoot repeatedly as they move around, but fewer will get loose into the cage. Being able to exercise and stretch his tongue a bit more may help his coordination and muscle control. I also think it is harder for a cham to pick out one prey item to focus on when there are too many moving around in a crowded small space like a cup. All the motion close together is confusing...that's why many prey animals live in herds!
 
jannb said:
What kind of UVB bulb are you using? It it the coil type? It could be an eye problem and he's not seeing well or I've also read on here it could possible be a calcium inbalance. What's your supplementing like? What brands and how ofter?
Click to expand...


I have watched Davids panther twice while he went on vacation (kinda funny with the other post going one:rolleyes:). Anyway! Davids set up is great. All the right lighting, big enclosure, heavily planted and very well set up:)

I also noticed him getting real close to the targets when I was watching him in July or August although he was still hitting them. He is around 3 years old right? It could be an eye problem from him getting older but is it possible he has just lost his ability to shoot at a distance since he has been cup fed his whole life? What you dont use you loose??

I hope all is well with Louie, David.

Edit: have you noticed anything with his one problematic eye?
 
When my veiled was around 5months old this problem appeared overnight. He suddenly started shooting high and to the right without any apparent injury or discomfort.

Although I tried to keep him shooting properly by tempting him at distance with his favorite foods he eventually stopped using his tongue at more than a couple cm. His success rate was pretty much zero so it became a pointless exercise for him.

He is now 1 year and 2months old and pretty much refuses to shoot, I suspect that he doesn't have the ability to anymore. I'm saddened by it but it's never really affected his quality of life as a cup feeder.

The vet and I couldn't figure out what the problem. I've always suspected something to do with his hyoid bone or a ligament being torn. I'm 99% sure it was not a nutrition or light related thing. The majority of his crickets had been free ranging until this point.

George had a bad case of MBD in the first months of his life (and heavens knows what else) before I got him. I suspect this initial problem, although treated, may have caused or aggravated this further problem.

Secure your cup so it cant topple over. Also get used to holding crickets, I was very squeemish at first but I'm finally over it :) I find coaxing one onto your hand and then (gently) scruntch your hand up to catch a leg or two in your folds of skin. Then with your other hand gently grab all the legs on the other side, as close to the body as possible. You don't want give the cricket any leverage or it will kick off its legs :( It takes a bit of practice but once you get the knack of grabbing a cricket between your thumb and forefinger it really helps for varying the distance at feeding time which is the problem with the cup.
 
Cage Type: a terrarium 48x30x16
Lighting: 5.0 reptisun UVB and a 60 watt light bulb for basking.
Temperature: Normal temps are around 70-75 and basking are 80-86
Humidity: The humidity is around 30% and its basically made by misting him and by the plant.
Plants: One Arboricola
Location: The cage is located in my room, its not by and air vents or where drafts are.

Your Chameleon: A blue bar panther ambilobe,he is 3 years old,male.
Feeding: His diet consists of crickets,he gets about 10-12 every other day, I am using carrots to gut load the crickets.
Supplements: I use reptivite about once a month and rep cal every 2 weeks.
Watering: I have a dripper on the whole day that drips off a leaf. I mist him 2x a day for about 3-5 minutes.
Fecal Description: I dont usually see fresh ones,by the time i see theem they are shriveled up. But at times when i do see new ones,they have a whitish end and have some tan in them.
History: He has had an eye problem that has plagued him for a while. But that ended about two summers ago, it seemed to be a vitamin A defficiency that was the problem.

I dont usually dump the crickets in there at the same time,i usually drop one in at a time and wait for him to eat it. Its not like he cant shoot far, its just hes not accurate. The idea that Carlton put out there seems like a good one to me, Ill try it out. And thanks Jared, nothing wrong with his eye lately:)
 
Get a multi vit. such as Herptivite and try that a couple of times a month and see if that helps. It for sure will not hurt. I use once a month all the time.
 
Tongue issues are often the result of injury or nutritional imbalances. Did the loss of tongue function/aim happen slowly over time, or quite quickly? Possible causes:
- trauma from getting the tongue wrapped around or entangled or caught on something in the enclosure or a puncture wound from hitting something sharp in the enclosure;
- damage to the tongue by a live prey item (i.e. the spiky legs of adult grasshoppers and even some roaches);
- hand-feeding injuries (if the feeder accidentally grabs or pulls the tongue when it makes contact with the fingers)
- something caught or lodged in the mouth or tongue tissue
- mouth or tongue infection or abscesses
- eye issues
- parasites
- hypocalcaemia or vitamin deficiency. Nutritional deficiencies are typically a slower, more chronic loss of tongue function. The chameleon tongue's aim may become misguided, or the tongue's reach gradually decreases until the chameleon can project it just a little or not at all. Poor tongue control / Missing the insects can be a sign of a calcium deficiency, or deficiency in B vitamins, and /or sometimes vitamin A deficiency. A good supplement or improved gutload containing these vitamins usually helps within a week if vitamin deficiency is the reason and the case is not too far gone.
-Old age can sometimes cause poor tongue control.

If you're only using carrot fed crickets, and only using reptivite once a month, it quite possibly could be a vitamin or calcium deficiency issue.
Reptivite does contain vitamins, including preformed A, which you dont want too much of. You might consider getting a plain calcium powder, to use more often.
I suggest you Seek Veterinarian advice. Blood work can help pin point deficiencies.

 
I also think it is harder for a cham to pick out one prey item to focus on when there are too many moving around in a crowded small space like a cup. All the motion close together is confusing...
Click to expand...

Bingo! The simplest cause is often the last considered! If it cant hit a single prey item in the cage, then look further. Less crickets in the cup, or free range them.
Whats it like with different prey?

:)
 
Rep-cal with or without D3?

Since most insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos. I dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder (rep-cal).

I also dust with herptivite twice a month. Reptivite has preformed vitamin A in it and you have to be careful not to overdo preformed vitamin A...so don't overdo it. Excess preformed vitamin A can interfere with the D3 and push the chameleon towards MBD. Here's a good site about vitamin A...
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html

I dust twice a month with Rep-cal/D3. Here's a good site about D3...
http://web.archive.org/web/20060421.../index.php?show=6.Vitamin.D3.and.Calcium.html

I gutload crickets with a wide assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, celery leaves, sweet potato, etc.).

If the calcium, D3, phos. and vitamin A are not in balance then it can compromise the bone health. Also, calcium plays a part in muscle contractions.
 
Ya, the Rep Cal is with D3. So should I stick with the rep cal and get herptivite? Should I continue the same schedule too?

The loss of his accuracy happened slowly over time too. The tongue function is there, its just the accuracy isnt:(
 
One more thing I should have said...if its a calcium imbalance you need to bring it back into balance as well as make sure your husbandry is correct(ed).
 
I was at the pet store the other day and saw a calcium supplement, I think it was called repto cal, it has phosphorous in it so I didnt get it, does anyone use it? Also, I didnt know that dusting with calcium every feeding was good, isnt that too much?:confused: Or is it just excessive D3 thats bad?
 
summoner12 said:
Vit. A?

get some fish oil pills.... put a drop on one or two feeders and offer them to him... see how that goes. Check out Brand Ramsey's care sheet for supplements.
Click to expand...

I have fish oil. I had it because he had a vit A. defficiency. I dont drop it onto a cricket,i just swab his mouth with a Q-tip. Should I use the fish oils instead of using the multi vitamin supplement? Im going to order the rep cal without d3 and with d3( the one I have is starting to expire). Ill order the herptivite too while im at it.
 
You said..."I use reptivite about once a month and rep cal every 2 weeks"...as I already said...to help balance the ratio of calcium to phos. you should have been (should be now) dusting with a phos.-free calcium at most feedings.

Reptivite has prEformed vitamin A in it and you are giving it fish oil. Fish oils usually have prEformed vitamin A and D3 in it. You are also using Rep-cal with D3 twice a month, which IMHO would be fine if you were dusting with the phos.-free calcium and were not giving prEformed oil as well as the Reptivite with vitamin A in it. I'm not a vet, but IMHO, you are overdoing the D3 and the prEformed vitamin A and not giving the chameleon enough calcium as well. If you read the sites that I gave you, they explain the relationship between D3 and calcium and vitamin A. Here is another site that explains it...
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=102

I don't know what you are gutloading/feeding your insects with...but you should look at the calcium, phos., D3 and prEformed vitamin A in it too.

You need a vet to tell you for sure if there is an imbalance...and the vet can correct it once he/she knows what is not in balance.
 
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